darren01 Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Hi all As I am turning my layout into an Exhibition layout I need to use aliment dowels, having looked on the net for them, and finding that the pattern marker dowels cost £4.99 each. I would need two for each board, and having 8 boards to do, this woks out to 16 of them, and at £4.99 each this comes to £78.84! Is their cheaper way to do this, and who would be the best place to get them from? All the best Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 You can try C&L - they do very nice turned steel dowels. "http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php" 2 pairs are 6.80 which will do 2 ends. For 8 boards (end to end assumed) you need 7 sets which comes to 47.60. A problem I foresee if you are retrofitting dowels to a layout that already has track on it is aligning the dowels perfectly (and it MUST be perfect). I had a friend who is an experienced carpenter install mine into the ends even before the baseboards were built - even then it was not easy and some remedial planing was required. Good luck with that. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 Hi John The track each side of the joins has been taken out,as i plan to lay new track once i have the aliment dowels in. I will be useing cooper clad sleepers just before the joins to hold the track down . This way i hope to have the track aliment right, i will clamp the boards together as they where when the layout was together. will this work ok? All the best Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I've used home made ones in the past, very accurate and easy to make, though having an arc welder helped! (car repairs). Basically each dowel consists of a male and female part. The male part is a metal plate with a bolt/threaded rod welded to its centre. Something like a rod with a nut, to which a 13mm spanner fits, was what I used. The metal plate was a drawer divider from a Dexion type drawer used in warehouses, through any sheet steel could be used. If no welder is available I guess the bolt/rod could be held by another nut. This male "dowel" is screwed with 4 woodscrews to the inside of the battern (2 x 1) at the baseboard end, with the rod passing through a predrilled clearance hole. Positioning of the dowel is not critical at this stage. However it is easier to clamp the batten from the other board to it at this stage, accurately aligned, and drill right through the 2 battens at the same time. (And also the same for the 2nd dowel). If a nut is used instead of welding, then the clearance hole in the "male" baseboard only will have to be enlarged to allow the nut to be recessed. On the 2nd batten another metal plate is fixed with woodscrews. The clearance hole is drilled through the metal - minimal clearance is needed, too much and accuracy of alignment is lessened. You could leave it like this, but assembly of the finished boards is made easier by slotting the clearance hole downwards, into a v-shape. The boards then are easier to join together as the wider v-shaped slot allows easy finding of the slot, and the metal plate and rod do not wear like wood would (!). If the rod is made long enough, the fixing nut (and washer if you want to be posh) can be left on the rod, with the thread end burred over to stop them being lost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted March 15, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2010 Another place to look is Station Road Baseboards. Station Road Baseboards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meple Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 As I am turning my layout into an Exhibition layout I need to use aliment dowels Why do you think you need to use alignment dowels? Once you use them you are then stuck with what they align with and you are unable to make adjustments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Traxson Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Why do you think you need to use alignment dowels? Once you use them you are then stuck with what they align with and you are unable to make adjustments. Thats why you use them, you get it right first time and you don't need to make adjustments. Phil T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Hi John The track each side of the joins has been taken out,as i plan to lay new track once i have the aliment dowels in. I will be useing cooper clad sleepers just before the joins to hold the track down . This way i hope to have the track aliment right, i will clamp the boards together as they where when the layout was together. will this work ok? This is exactly what I've done on 'Portwilliam', I've not finished wiring up and testing yet but it passes the 'wagon pushed through by hand' test. I used cabinet maker's dowels (I think from Station Road Baseboards) which are a few thou less accurate but rather cheaper. They're designed to be hammered into an interference fit hole rather than screwed on, but I see no reason why you can't press them in with a big G-cramp. The advantage is that they fit in a 10mm hole so if you clamp everything up tight and drill 10mm through both board ends at the same time, in theory it should all line up. The relevant bit starts about half-way down: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/4428-portwilliam-a-port-road-twig-in-the-1960s/page__pid__101030__st__0&?do=findComment&comment=101030 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meple Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Thats why you use them, you get it right first time and you don't need to make adjustments. Phil T. Until something moves, expands, contracts etc and then you find you can't adjust it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Until something moves, expands, contracts etc and then you find you can't adjust it! You can adjust it as easily (or not, depending on your method of construction) as if you're not using dowels. Using them just takes one fairly significant variable out of the equation by making your baseboard alignment a constant. That's the theory anyway, mine have only been in place a week so we'll see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANT Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Hello Darren We have in the passed got our pattern makers dowels through the German Railway Society, but I don't have any contact for them. I could find out if you are interested? I did find this company on the net that might be worth a try called John Burn He is a link direct to the dowels page John Burn Pattern Makers Dowels We use the 1" type, but make sure you have a 1" drill, as a 25mm is just not big enough. Thanks SEEYA ANT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted March 15, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2010 Darren, it has been discussed here at some length on the old forum here We got ours from John Burn as advized above but found that for small quantities C&L (here) were the cheapest when we needed just a few. Our method used: I’ve just finished fitting forty of them to DRAG’s new test track 2. The method that I used was slightly different to those described on here. Firstly I drilled two 1 inch shallow holes and fitted the female parts of the dowels. Next I drilled two slightly larger shallow holes , size doesn’t matter, just as long as it’s roughly 3/5mm larger than the dowel body. Next I pushed the male part into the fitted other half with a piece of clingfilm (about 6 ins square) between the two. Then stand the board on end and then mix some epoxy resin glue and put some of it in the ‘male’ drilled recess. Put the board with the ‘joined’ dowels on top and clamp together with G-clamps. Lift the boards off the floor and place on the bench, loosen the G-clamps slightly and screw down two pieces of 2â€x1†batten near the edges, thus joining and levelling the two boards completely and accurately flat. Leave to cure overnight and then remove the battens. Pull them apart and fit the three retaining screws into the male dowel. And there you have it, perfectly aligned and level baseboard tops. For ‘belt and braces’ I always cover the dowels with grease before bringing together with the clingfilm just in case there’s any leakage of the epoxy that might stick the dowels together. This may seem a long-winded way of doing it, but I felt that my joinery skills were not accurate enough to do it in the way described on this thread and with forty pairs to do on the baseboards, which will be put up and taken down twice a month, they would need to be very accurate and robust to withstand all that heavy handling. CK used this method on Callow Lane boards to good effect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 HI Thanks for all your help with this one ,will be ordering very soon ,will let you all know how i get on. Alll the best Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sidecar Racer Posted March 22, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2010 Model Rail No 139 , article on retro fitting alignment systems on page 80 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted March 23, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 23, 2010 I used split hinges successfuly for an 0 gauge exhibition layout. Alignment and holding together in one. Donw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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