Price Rises - The upside!

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi all,

 

With all the talk and action from the manufacturers of the RTR ranges of models....

 

This has a benefit to the smaller run and kit making companies!

 

In the not to dim and distant past it was getting to the stage that the kit makers could not make and sell kits as the prices of the RTR models of the kits were selling at about the same price as thier kits.

 

Now - with all the increases in prices from China hitting the RTR stuff, kits are again a cheaper way to have model railways as a hobby.

 

I must say that, as a deep rooted modeller, not collecter, this pleases me!

 

I hope it encourages more of the kit masnufacturers to increase the range of kits available.

 

Thanks

[rob D2]

Hmm,

I'm not sure that's always the case.

 

If I buy a parkside clam it's only s couple of pounds less than a Hornsby one - I wouldn't bother buying the kit.

 

I think the only reason would be a/ the prototype you want isn't available RTR b/ you really like building wagon kits

[grahame]

Hmm,

I'm not sure that's always the case.

If I buy a parkside clam it's only s couple of pounds less than a Hornsby one - I wouldn't bother buying the kit.

I think the only reason would be a/ the prototype you want isn't available RTR b/ you really like building wagon kits

And

C) the kit is cheaper than the RTR option (and building kits is not an issue) - which is basically what the OP is saying. The savings increase significantly if you want a rake of the wagons, buy in bulk and batch build.

 

G.

[ROSSPOP]

I quite agree Scottish Modeller...................

 

Like you I`ve been a deep rooted kit builder for years and occasionally mix RTR with (very old kits) and ,ofcourse, what RTR rarely gives you is the enjoyment and reward of doing it yourself.........

 

 

 

 

 

regards

 

 

John

 

 

 

[Bernard Lamb]

Hmm,

I'm not sure that's always the case.

 

If I buy a parkside clam it's only s couple of pounds less than a Hornsby one - I wouldn't bother buying the kit.

 

I think the only reason would be a/ the prototype you want isn't available RTR b/ you really like building wagon kits

£10.45 against £16.99 at present. That is if you can find a Hornby version.

A bit more than a couple of pounds and that ratio is almost certain to change to even more in favour of the kit.

Unless we get galloping inflation, but then we are all down the pan any how.

I think a bigger problem to the growth of kit building is a lack of skill and a we want it now, dead cheap and with no effort attitude, that has grown up in recent years.

Bernard

[hayfield]

Hi all,

 

With all the talk and action from the manufacturers of the RTR ranges of models....

 

This has a benefit to the smaller run and kit making companies!

 

In the not to dim and distant past it was getting to the stage that the kit makers could not make and sell kits as the prices of the RTR models of the kits were selling at about the same price as thier kits.

 

Now - with all the increases in prices from China hitting the RTR stuff, kits are again a cheaper way to have model railways as a hobby.

 

I must say that, as a deep rooted modeller, not collecter, this pleases me!

 

I hope it encourages more of the kit masnufacturers to increase the range of kits available.

 

Thanks

 

 

Totally agree with the modelling far more fun than just buying, on the other hand if a RTR model is better than I can build why make an inferior item. Also buying an item allows you to build another thing which is not available. We have become accustomed to far more items which we want to become available in RTR form lately, it has to stop somewhere or become more expensive due to too much choice reducing potential sales numbers

[jonny777]

Yes, I have a drawer full of old Parkside wagon kits that I have yet to get around to building.

 

The advantages of mixing kit built and rtr wagons is that a rake does have some variation, as did the real thing in times gone by.

 

I used to watch the High Dyke - Frodingham iron ore trains from my back garden, and quite often no two wagons in the same train were identical, even though they were mostly 27t tipplers (although a few 16t coal wagons did creep in from time to time). Even if the wagons looked the same, the position of the "iron ore tippler" panel varied by many inches.

[great central]

Yes, I have a drawer full of old Parkside wagon kits that I have yet to get around to building.

 

The advantages of mixing kit built and rtr wagons is that a rake does have some variation, as did the real thing in times gone by.

.

I have a couple of trays of built kits awaiting painting or lettering and weathering. I have a small tool box in my car with all I need to build plastic wagon and coach kits. Use them to pass the time when I'm spare, don't always get that much done with chatting specially on mornings but afternoon spare turns can be very tedious

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for the responses - much appreciated!

 

One of the benefits of kits being cheaper than the RTR stock is the opportunity for more people to make kits.

 

They are cheaper to buy, so it's not as much of a cost if you mess up in any way!

 

I see this as a way that modellers can expand their skill base and this should help them to build even more kits as well as detail their own RTR stock.

 

There are still a lot of RTR items out there that would benefit from being attacked and getting the detail improved plus another opportunity by repainting them, to broaden the variety of stock you run on a layout.

 

It's hard to see a downside in this, but then, I am one of those people who look at things as 'glass half full' and not the other way round.

 

Thanks

[grahame]

 

I think a bigger problem to the growth of kit building is a lack of skill and a we want it now, dead cheap and with no effort attitude, that has grown up in recent years.

 

Unfortunately, yes.

 

I guess the issue is not can cheaper RTR prices encourage people to take up the hobby but in being able to convince people that making things can be fun and rewarding.

 

G.

[Horsetan]

....but then we are all down the pan any how....

I'm not sure that's not already happened.

[Butler Henderson]

Also the cost of glue, paint, transfers to factor in which can make a single wagon kit cost prohibitive, obviously the costs fall on further kits provided the transfer sheet covers them; but then am I the only one who has on the basis of a description ordered a transfer sheet only to find it is not what I am looking for.

[chrisf]

When I choose between a kit and a rtr model of the same prototype I consider how much of the rtr will be discarded in the process of converting to P4 and how easy that process will be.  There is no one answer!

 

Chris

[Phil Parker]

The challenge is to explain that making things is FUN. They may not be as perfects as a RTR model, but they will be nearer the standard of the rest of your layout. I've always felt that a model where everything is a consistant standard will always look better than one where some bits are perfect and others average - even if the whole thing is average, like my stuff.

 

I know someone will say "But RTR save me time I can use to improve other areas", but this rarely seems to be the case. If it did, there would be no end of show-stopper layouts on the circuit.

 

So, higher prices = more kitbuilding = more people enjoying thier modelling hobby?

 

Perhaps it will also make the saving or re-introduction of some defunct ranges of kits more financially practical.

[Andrew F]

A lot of people have convinced themselves they can't build anything. I'm not sure where this attitude has come from as kids always seemed to build Airfix kits in the 70's.. Also RTR is like a fix to a junky for some folk who don't really care how much a piece of stock costs; they simply must have it. 

 

 The Dapol/Airfix/Kitmaster wagons are great value and I'm sure within the capabilities of most enthusiasts; you even get metal wheels/transfers and couplings and can get them from Hattons. Building one of these would get a few people hooked and then they'd be knocking up Parkside and Cambrian kits in no time. The cost of transfers and paint etc is not much of a factor once you're rolling.

[Phil Parker]

A lot of people have convinced themselves they can't build anything. I'm not sure where this attitude has come from as kids always seemed to build Airfix kits in the 70's.. Also RTR is like a fix to a junky for some folk who don't really care how much a piece of stock costs; they simply must have it. 

 

 The Dapol/Airfix/Kitmaster wagons are great value and I'm sure within the capabilities of most enthusiasts; you even get metal wheels/transfers and couplings and can get them from Hattons. Building one of these would get a few people hooked and then they'd be knocking up Parkside and Cambrian kits in no time. The cost of transfers and paint etc is not much of a factor once you're rolling.

 

For many it's all about owning something new. There is no pleasure making things, the end result is everything.

 

As for Dapol/Airfix/Kitmaster wagons leading to Parkside - surely the other way around. Modern Parkside are far, far easier to build than anything designed in the 1960s. The wheels fit between the axleboxes for a start, brass bearings are designed in, body corners meet properly and you won't be tempted to try and make the doors work with those chunky hinges.

[jamie92208]

For many it's all about owning something new. There is no pleasure making things, the end result is everything.

That's the saddest part. I started off as many did with RTR stuff then graduated to kit building. Eventually for purely financial reasons I learned how to produce artwork for etched brass. I'd inherited a load of original drawings of what I wanted to build and couldn't afford to pay someone to do the artwork. I eventually needed to produce a power bogie for some EMU's that I'm building. They are unique and I very much doubt if anyone is going to ever produce one, even as a kit. I therefore drew up a bogie and got it etched. Fitted with two traction motors It now runs. The immense feeling of pleasure in producing my first ever piece of scratch built motive power cannot be overstated. This journey from RTR to scratch building has taken nearly 50 years but has been well worthwhile.

 

If only we could somehow inspire new modellers to start off on the same route.

 

Jamie

[Scottish Modeller]

The challenge is to explain that making things is FUN. They may not be as perfects as a RTR model, but they will be nearer the standard of the rest of your layout. I've always felt that a model where everything is a consistant standard will always look better than one where some bits are perfect and others average - even if the whole thing is average, like my stuff.

 

I know someone will say "But RTR save me time I can use to improve other areas", but this rarely seems to be the case. If it did, there would be no end of show-stopper layouts on the circuit.

 

So, higher prices = more kitbuilding = more people enjoying thier modelling hobby?

 

Perhaps it will also make the saving or re-introduction of some defunct ranges of kits more financially practical.

Hi Phil,

 

Making things FUN...

 

You have stated exactly what our Scottish Modellers group aim to achieve at every exhibition we provide demonstations for.

 

This year that will have been 12 exhibitions at which we have shown the public (ond other exhibitors) that there can be a fun side to the hobby and a relatively simple way to expend on their skill set.

 

It's something we intend to carry on doing for the forseeable future as well as we have about the same number of exhibitions to attend next year!

 

Thanks

[Scottish Modeller]

That's the saddest part. I started off as many did with RTR stuff then graduated to kit building. Eventually for purely financial reasons I learned how to produce artwork for etched brass. I'd inherited a load of original drawings of what I wanted to build and couldn't afford to pay someone to do the artwork. I eventually needed to produce a power bogie for some EMU's that I'm building. They are unique and I very much doubt if anyone is going to ever produce one, even as a kit. I therefore drew up a bogie and got it etched. Fitted with two traction motors It now runs. The immense feeling of pleasure in producing my first ever piece of scratch built motive power cannot be overstated. This journey from RTR to scratch building has taken nearly 50 years but has been well worthwhile.

 

If only we could somehow inspire new modellers to start off on the same route.

 

Jamie

Hi Jamie,

 

Yes - overcoming this fear of doing something new is one of the biggest obstacles.

 

In the past I've taken some of my older, unbuilt kits along and got visitors to 'have a go' themselves.

 

Even getting them to invest in a cheap kit off a 2nd hand stand at the show and then come back to us for advice/assistance, a workbench to work on, has been tried!

 

At one show I got a young lads grandfather to agree that the lad could sit with us and have a go himself - hopefully he went away not so worried about trying things himself.

 

Thanks

[Horsetan]

For many it's all about owning something new. There is no pleasure making things, the end result is everything.....

Sometimes it's not even the end result, but the act of buying it which gives the thrill.

[Scottish Modeller]

I quite agree Scottish Modeller...................

 

Like you I`ve been a deep rooted kit builder for years and occasionally mix RTR with (very old kits) and ,ofcourse, what RTR rarely gives you is the enjoyment and reward of doing it yourself.........

 

 

 

DSC01794.JPG

 

 

regards

 

 

John

Hi John,

 

I've lost count of how many of these I've built over the years and I've got at least another 20 of these in a box - just waiting for me to get aroound to them.

 

I seem to remember buying replacement wheels for them as well - no dount I will have used them on other stuff between then and whenever I do build them!

 

Thanks

 

Thanks

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Interesting comments from both sides of the fence.

 

Parkside has done a huge amount, following on from the likes of ABS et al., to bring the hobby more accuracy and detail at a reasonable cost.

 

The hobby is creative at its core, or it used to be, and it always makes me chuckle when folk say that they cant build at Parkside kit - how on earth, if one cant make a simple wagon kit, can one build an entire model railway layout? Or is it a case of perfect RTR running on Hornby track mats for many punters?

 

With the kit manufacturers, if sales drop off, then it will be a case of use it or loose it and such is in all of our hands.

 

If the £ stays where is it is, imports will become ever more expensive, so UK products will be more cost effective, yet my guess is that we all have different criteria for buying and building kits, above and beyond just price?

 

ATVB

 

CME

[jjb1970]

A lot of people have convinced themselves they can't build anything. I'm not sure where this attitude has come from as kids always seemed to build Airfix kits in the 70's.. Also RTR is like a fix to a junky for some folk who don't really care how much a piece of stock costs; they simply must have it. 

 

 

 

Oddly, I think that is part of the problem. I still enjoy building plastic kits of aircraft and military vehicles and figures but am not a model train kit enthusiast because I found my excursions into model train kits so disappointing. In the plastic kit world even the less than great kits are generally produced with a certain minimum level of professionalism, come with usable instructions and I find can be made into a decent representation of the prototype. I just never found that to be the case with model train kits, yes there are some very professional kits of trains but there is also a lot of rubbish and I found they were too expensive to buy on the basis of it being a lottery as to whether the kit would be any good. But that's just me.

[jonny777]

I am in agreement with jjb1970.

 

I love building kits of aircraft and ships; but although I have no problems with the bodies of railway rolling stock, it is the chassis or bogies that tend to ruin the finished article for me sometimes.

 

The fact that model railway kits need to run smoothly along tracks at various speeds gives an entirely different dimension to the kit building, compared with a static display of anything which just sits on a plinth. 

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Oddly, I think that is part of the problem. I still enjoy building plastic kits of aircraft and military vehicles and figures but am not a model train kit enthusiast because I found my excursions into model train kits so disappointing. In the plastic kit world even the less than great kits are generally produced with a certain minimum level of professionalism, come with usable instructions and I find can be made into a decent representation of the prototype. I just never found that to be the case with model train kits, yes there are some very professional kits of trains but there is also a lot of rubbish and I found they were too expensive to buy on the basis of it being a lottery as to whether the kit would be any good. But that's just me.

Hi,

 

You mention 'model train' kits, are those for engines (locos) or for rolling stock? Also which manufacturers' kits have you tried? Can you specify which kits you found were good, bad or indifferent in the world of model railways?

 

I am in agreement with jjb1970.

 

I love building kits of aircraft and ships; but although I have no problems with the bodies of railway rolling stock, it is the chassis or bogies that tend to ruin the finished article for me sometimes.

 

The fact that model railway kits need to run smoothly along tracks at various speeds gives an entirely different dimension to the kit building, compared with a static display of anything which just sits on a plinth. 

.....Jonny there is no mystery to building chassis, as long as time and patience are applied - the use of mirror/plate glass is recommended too, although I have built Parkside kits (on a wind swept rainy day) in a holiday cottage with a flat table and a cutting mat, their chassis fall together and are fairly easily aligned if good modelling practices are adhered to. Certain kits from the old Websters range, now Peco, in 7mm, really do fall together (specifically the 27T Iron Ore Tippler - photo hereunder - the 16T Mineral and the Pig Iron open - hereunder masquerading as an early Coil C - all fall into the category of, 'shake the box and it's almost built').

 

The Tippler should have the branding relating to the M4 construction works and Swindon rail-head, when I get around to doing some more, I may make up some transfers. The gouging on the sides represents being loaded by a wheeled excavator.

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

 

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