Hornby B17

[Les Bird]

I recently acquired a Hornby B17 with Great Eastern tender. It runs very well and virtually silently in both directions and looks superb. However, I coupled it to three Hornby Dublo tinplate suburban coaches and it seemed to find the load taxing and slipped quite a lot before getting under way. Now I know these coaches are fairly heavy and not particularly free-running but I didn't expect such a small load to be a problem. Has anyone else found the B17 to be lacking? Incidentally, I have had a J15 successfully hauling no less than 12 coaches!

[Daddyman]

I had a B1 with a similar aversion to rice-pudding skin, and the cause was that the wires between the loco and tender were installed in such a way that they lifted the rear drivers off the track very slightly, possibly as a result of the wires interfering with the drawbar. The solution was unfastening the drawbar and making any necessary adjustments to the route of the wires. Another solution is a bit of lead in the boiler top, but that will only get you a couple more wagons. The truth is that these Hornby 4-6-0s are just not very good pullers.... 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The B17 I have, in original form was out-performed by the D16/3 4-4-0 as well! Major problem was the drag from the tender wiper pick ups, which were a full brake application. Reducing tender wiper contact was enough, but one could go further with replacement free running tender wheelsets in a new frame if necessary. 

 

With that fixed it does enough to haul all I require of it, so (unusually for me) I have not pulled the body apart to fit more ballast; it doesn't give any clues to how the forward ballast weight might be removed for replacement in lead so if anyone has doen it that would be useful to know.

[orford]

I confess to being a little surprised by this post. I have two Hornby B17's - both with the short ex-GER tender, 'Thorpe Hall' and 'Gilwell Park' (so they both came from different production batches, the Hall from the original production and the Park from a later run). However, I have no haulage problems with either, both taking 5 heavy Hornby 'Pullmans' around my layout with ease. And these are the Pullmans with the drag-inducing wipers on all the axles for the power to the lights. This indicates to me that the problem is unlikely to be in the B17 itself.

 

I was wondering whether this problem is happening on straight track, or on curves?  If on curves, this could make a significant difference. My minimum radius is 48 inches and I have no problems....but I could imagine a train of this weight really struggling on curves of perhaps, less than 3 feet, especially if you are asking it to start on a curve. 

 

On the point raised above that both the J15's and the D16/3 will out-haul the B17 - this is not in fact at all surprising since both these locos have heavy cast metal boilers providing additional weight prescisely where it is needed, directly over the driving wheels, whereas the B17 has a plastic boiler. The haulage power of models is entirely unrelated to the respective haulage capabilities of the prototypes.

 

I would personally start by adding as much weight as possible to the boiler - and also by REMOVING the weight from the tender, which in my experience makes no difference whatsoever to track-holding but which is the equivalent of adding a couple of additional wagons to the train, to say nothing of the extra drag from the tender pick-ups on top of this - remember the loco is pulling its own tender as well as the coaches/wagons. I have removed the tender weights from both of mine as part of my standard DCC/sound installation and as I say, I find it makes no difference whatsoever to its track-holding capabilities (not on my generous curves anyway - but do test this first on your own layout before discarding the weight altogether).

 

Don

 

[orford]

This video should help to reinforce my earlier point that there is nothing wrong with the haulage capacity of the B17 in itself....but that the problem must lie elsewhere.

 

It shows the Hornby loco hauling a ten coach train without any apparent problems.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nCRbA5rTuw

 

- Don

[micklner]

I agree, the B1's I have, manage Seven coaches or Ten CCT's on my small layout without issue.

 

Interesting comment re the Tender weight . I have a Hornby Q6 which on checking has zero weight as supplied by Hornby. This the first Hornby current generation I have seen made this way. I have added some lead, as I have read that the Q6 derails the Tender when running in reverse. 

 

They maybe mass produced, but it appears they do vary in performance.

[Les Bird]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions, I will certainly investigate the tender to see if it is causing any problems. I haven't actually tested how free running the tender is so that will be my starting point. My curves by the way are a little less generous than 48" but, in any case, the slipping also occurs on straight track. Perhaps I should just retire the HD suburbans!

[orford]

Les - It could well be just down to the HD Suburbans.  As I recall those things from many years since, they were not exactly free running by today's pin-point bearing standards.  In the days when they were produced, locos with bogies made entrirely of diecast metal (and thus much heavier than today's models) were the norm, so it probably wasn't a problem when they were new.  If you want to keep the old coaches it might be worth investigating whether they could be fitted with more modern bogies. Could give them a whole new lease of life.

 

Don