Loading of oversize Steel Plates

[Rail-Online]

Hi,

 

I thought you would be interested in the attached 'edge of a negative' pic of a couple of 4 wheel bolster wagons loaded with steel plates taken in 1961 at Habrough near Grimsby. They are too large to fit on plate wagons so overhang the bolster wagons and a plate wagon has been used as a runner. It is interesting how they sit and indeed how much steel makes up 12 Tons - much more than modellers would normally put on! I think the wagons are a LNER one nearer the camera and part of an LMS bolster behind it.

 

It is a shame its not in colour as it would be fascinating to see how weathered and rusty the steel plates are.

 

Tony

[Fat Controller]

A rare shot that, as Double-Bolsters had largely been superceded by Bogie Bolsters by the 1960s. I wonder why they loaded them like that, and didn't use a 'Boplate', which the Eastern had a lot of? The ex-LNER Plate nearest the camera is interesting- it's received roller-bearing axle-boxes, but hasn't been fitted with vacuum brakes. The middle wagon is an ex-LMS Double-Bolster- the extra 'leg' on the inner side of each W-iron is very distinctive. I'm not sure what the second Double-Bolster is- it seems to have very low sides.

The steel plate wouldn't have being laying around for that long, so the surface wouldn't have much rust; such that there would have been would be of the rather brighter orange of fresh rust. I reckon there are about a dozen plates per wagon.

Note how the 'Cut' number has been chalked on the two visible headstocks ; these are for the benefit of the person in the hump cabin, and show which siding the wagons should go to. They'd be chalked on the wagons when the train arrived at the Reception sidings, and the list of 'cuts' would be called through to the cabin.

[Arthur]

 

If we consider those loads as a single block of steel and guesstimate it at 12' x 6' x 8" that would weigh around 10 tons. Just gives a rough idea. Steel typically weighs 490lbs per cubic foot.

[Poor Old Bruce]

 

The steel plate wouldn't have being laying around for that long, so the surface wouldn't have much rust; such that there would have been would be of the rather brighter orange of fresh rust.

 

Depending on the grade and rolling of the steel I would have thought that the surface would be more of a grey from the mill scale. The "brighter orange of fresh rust" would only manifest itself on clean steel.

[Siberian Snooper]

All the plate of 1/4 " thick ( 10lbs per sq foot) or more, was painted grey with coloured markings in one corner to indicate what the quality or type of steel the plate was, that I have worked with since the early 70s and I believe it was like that for sometime before then.

[Enterprisingwestern]

If we consider those loads as a single block of steel and guesstimate it at 12' x 6' x 8" that would weigh around 10 tons. Just gives a rough idea. Steel typically weighs 490lbs per cubic foot.

 

 

All the plate of 1/4 " thick ( 10lbs per sq foot) or more, was painted grey with coloured markings in one corner to indicate what the quality or type of steel the plate was, that I have worked with since the early 70s and I believe it was like that for sometime before then.

 

Pedants hat on.

Somebody is 10lb out!!

Only joking, useful OTTOMH information, simplifies working out wagon loads.

 

Mike.

[royaloak]

Those loads are going to be rejected, they have been bent during transportation!   

[Bernard Lamb]

All the plate of 1/4 " thick ( 10lbs per sq foot) or more, was painted grey with coloured markings in one corner to indicate what the quality or type of steel the plate was, that I have worked with since the early 70s and I believe it was like that for sometime before then.

I have never come across painted steel plate. I do however remember the corner markings.

It was always a very dark brownish black in the natural finish in various places that I came across it and it certainly would never show signs of light red rust. That goes for 3mm up to 25mm.

Totally OT. A test for would be welders was to sign your name on a piece of 25mm steel plate using a welding rod. It could be quite an educational exercise.

Bernard

[Edwin_m]

Is the plate wagon really a runner or does it just coincidentally happen to be formed next to the bolsters with apparently no load? 

 

The reason I ask is that the further bolster is loaded, so the load on the nearer one can't overhang far enough that way to clash.  Assuming it is loaded so as to equalise the axle loads, then I think this would mean the nearer end wouldn't protrude over the end of its wagon either.  To me it also looks as if the nearer end of the nearer load is further away than the end of its wagon too, though obviously very hard to tell in a photo that is far from square on. 

[Grovenor]

Those loads are going to be rejected, they have been bent during transportation!   

Or loaded like that because they are pre-curved plates.

Regards

[davefrk]

The plates are loaded this way as they have a 'set' in them i.e. they are rolled to form a curve, most likely to build a storage tank. Looking at the radii it looks like it would take 6 plates to form a tier so I would hazard a guess that the marks are a plater's marks for assembly, the right hand corner having six plates with one mark and the top six have three marks indicating the tier number. The other wagons have the same number of plates for further tiers. The plates look to be plain mild steel and would most likely be painted after assembly and welding. There would also be some plates to form a low conical roof, possibly what's on the wagon we only see the corner of.

 

Dave Franks

Who's company used to build this sort of storage tank and marked plates this way for easy ID.

[62613]

The plates are loaded this way as they have a 'set' in them i.e. they are rolled to form a curve, most likely to build a storage tank. Looking at the radii it looks like it would take 6 plates to form a tier so I would hazard a guess that the marks are a plater's marks for assembly, the right hand corner having six plates with one mark and the top six have three marks indicating the tier number. The other wagons have the same number of plates for further tiers. The plates look to be plain mild steel and would most likely be painted after assembly and welding. There would also be some plates to form a low conical roof, possibly what's on the wagon we only see the corner of.

 

Dave Franks

Who's company used to build this sort of storage tank and marked plates this way for easy ID.

For one of the numerous refineries and chemical works around Immingham?

[PenrithBeacon]

I find it interesting that the LNER wagon which has been equipped with roller bearings also has the red stripe painted on them. This showed that it was, or had, taken part in the experiment to find a new type of lubricating grease. There aren't many photos of rolling stock in that condition.

 

The experiment started in 1960 and was concluded in 1963 or thereabouts.

[Arthur]

 

I have never come across painted steel plate. I do however remember the corner markings.

 

 

 

Yes, I find that rather odd too. The rolling mills didn't paint their products and most users would find paint an inconvenience. It doesn't rust that quickly to make protection a necessity. Painting reference marks is a different thing.

 

I doubt there is much mill scale on those panels. It forms on hot steel during the hot rolling process. It breaks off under cold rolling which would have been used to put that curve in. Most steel has a blue grey look to it and develops a bit of surface rust as it is frequently stored outside at the mill and by stockholders, as here;

 

 

 

 

.

[Fat Controller]

Yes, I find that rather odd too. The rolling mills didn't paint their products and most users would find paint an inconvenience. It doesn't rust that quickly to make protection a necessity. Painting reference marks is a different thing.

 

I doubt there is much mill scale on those panels. It forms on hot steel during the hot rolling process. It breaks off under cold rolling which would have been used to put that curve in. Most steel has a blue grey look to it and develops a bit of surface rust as it is frequently stored outside at the mill and by stockholders, as here;

 

 

IMG_2915.JPG

 

 

.

Most of those sheets seem to have some lettering stencilled on them. Presumably these would include originating plant, date rolled and perhaps the melt number, as well as size and thickness?

[Siberian Snooper]

Yes, I find that rather odd too. The rolling mills didn't paint their products and most users would find paint an inconvenience. It doesn't rust that quickly to make protection a necessity. Painting reference marks is a different thing.

I doubt there is much mill scale on those panels. It forms on hot steel during the hot rolling process. It breaks off under cold rolling which would have been used to put that curve in. Most steel has a blue grey look to it and develops a bit of surface rust as it is frequently stored outside at the mill and by stockholders, as here;

IMG_2915.JPG

.

I wonder if the paint was a MOD requirement, our sheet (up to and including 1/8") steel and aluminium used to come crated/boxed up in 10s. Most of our plate was 'B'quality.

[Fat Controller]

I wonder if the paint was a MOD requirement, our sheet (up to and including 1/8") steel and aluminium used to come crated/boxed up in 10s. Most of our plate was 'B'quality.

It sounds as though it may have come from a stockholder, in which case the MoD might have specified it be enamelled before dispatch. I can't think I've ever seen sheet from the rolling mill that's been painted, apart from the stuff that comes from the Colour-Coat line at Shotton, and that didn't become available until the late 1960s. I've certainly not known of a mill sending out mild steel in wooden crates.

A friend of mine used to work at the RNSD at Llangennech as a civilian employee. He and his colleagues used to repair and rebuild the various equipment cubicles you'd find on  board, using thin steel sheet. One day, the manager came down and asked who'd filled out the last load of sheet. Someone owned up, and was taken out to see the low-loader that had arrived, loaded with a single piece of deck plate, weighing several tons. Apparently, one digit was misplaced on the stock code.

[Siberian Snooper]

It sounds as though it may have come from a stockholder, in which case the MoD might have specified it be enamelled before dispatch. I can't think I've ever seen sheet from the rolling mill that's been painted, apart from the stuff that comes from the Colour-Coat line at Shotton, and that didn't become available until the late 1960s. I've certainly not known of a mill sending out mild steel in wooden crates.

A friend of mine used to work at the RNSD at Llangennech as a civilian employee. He and his colleagues used to repair and rebuild the various equipment cubicles you'd find on  board, using thin steel sheet. One day, the manager came down and asked who'd filled out the last load of sheet. Someone owned up, and was taken out to see the low-loader that had arrived, loaded with a single piece of deck plate, weighing several tons. Apparently, one digit was misplaced on the stock code.

I doubt he was the first and I know he was not the last.

[Arthur]

 

Thin sheet panels, several stacked together, used to be sent out in flat crates simply because the edges were readily damaged. A practice which started to disappear as users turned to coiled strip.

[AberdeenBill]

Great photo...   Can anybody make out the what the branding says on the Double? 

 

Bill

[Rail-Online]

Great photo...   Can anybody make out the what the branding says on the Double? 

 

Bill

'Double Bolster' I would think, it appears to be two words so therefore not 'Not to be Hump Shunted'

 

Tony

[Hesperus]

Is it just me or is the plank on the side of the first bolster a lot thicker than the other one?

[Fat Controller]

Is it just me or is the plank on the side of the first bolster a lot thicker than the other one?

The ex-LMS wagon seems to have sides almost two planks deep; the other wagon (perhaps ex-LNER/NER?) has a single plank.

[Wheatley]

D2067, higher sides (and drop sides) than the other diagrams.