How about a Dictator Loco Class? Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Does anyone know what fonts and colours shade codes were used on BR steam locos? For example the BR pale cream numbers used on A4's, Duchesses, Br standards? They all look the same colour shade I think? And the fonts seem to vary? Gill Sans seems a common one. If we can compile some answers it would be great! Or if anyone else has related questions that fit this topic. Thank you! For starters, here my grubby mitt gives a pointer to a potentially close RAL code! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
How about a Dictator Loco Class? Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 I'm hoping someone can help. I've seen at least one topic mentioning this, but no Pantone ref numbers were quoted, hence this topic. If one were to prepare a drawing for print in accurate BR colours, which Pantone numbers would be used to represent the RAL, etc. colours used in actual loco works? Specifically, I'm looking for the following: Loco Green Warning Panel Yellow Duck-egg Blue Roof Grey(s) Any help would be much appreciated. Steve Some useful stuff on here but not the specific answers to my questions I don't think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kylestrome Posted November 8, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 8, 2016 Put "RAL to Pantone" into Google. You might be surprised what a small amount of research will bring you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
How about a Dictator Loco Class? Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 Put "RAL to Pantone" into Google. You might be surprised what a small amount of research will bring you! Or maybe a small amount in the right direction. I've foolishly done a large amount in the wrong direction. Eg asking the NRM and many others who were useless. But that sounds a good idea! So thank you kindly for your help! (-: Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted November 8, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 8, 2016 Does anyone know what fonts and colours shade codes were used on BR steam locos? For example the BR pale cream numbers used on A4's, Duchesses, Br standards? They all look the same colour shade I think? And the fonts seem to vary? Gill Sans seems a common one. If we can compile some answers it would be great! Or if anyone else has related questions that fit this topic. Thank you! For starters, here my grubby mitt gives a pointer to a potentially close RAL code! Your problem is that you are asking the wrong questions. British Railways used the Gill Sans letterform until the British Rail Corporate Image was adopted; it then used the Rail Alphabet. Fonts as such are a recent idea, dating from the computer age. BR Gill Sans is NOT the same as the Gill Sans font that can be easily downloaded; it was a medium weight font designed specifically for BR. I had to design my own custom font to match the BR letterform when I started Cambridge Custom Transfers. Similarly, RAL and Pantone shades are relatively recent introductions; BR used its own paint shade specifications, some of which, (but not all), were equivalent to British Standard (BS) shades. For colour matching using modern paints, various matches have been posted here. For what it's worth, my list of matches which has been compiled from various sources is as follows :- CAR SPRAY PAINT MATCHES BR loco green Rover Brooklands Green, Ford Laurel Green BR diesel light green band Ford Highland Green BR coach carmine Ford Rosso Red, Vauxhall Carmine Red BR coach cream Vauxhall Gazelle Beige, Talbot Jonquil BR coach cream (well worn) Peugeot Antelope Beige BR loco / coach maroon Rover Damask Red, Vauxhall Burgundy Red, Ford Burgundy Red, Triumph Damson BR diesel blue VW Pargas Blue, slightly more blue & less green Ford Fjord Blue BR steam loco blue Peugeot Royal Blue BR loco yellow warning panel Vauxhall Mustard Yellow BR EMU Green Jaguar British Racing Green BR wagon grey VW EISGRAUEN KJ94 BR wagon bauxite ALFA ROMEO BRUNO DE37 GT3 Chocolate Rover Maple GT3 Chassis Green Land Rover Coniston Green Roof grey Halford's Plastic Bumper Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 How about a Dictator Loco Class?, on 08 Nov 2016 - 17:09, said:How about a Dictator Loco Class?, on 08 Nov 2016 - 17:09, said:How about a Dictator Loco Class?, on 08 Nov 2016 - 17:09, said:How about a Dictator Loco Class?, on 08 Nov 2016 - 17:09, said:How about a Dictator Loco Class?, on 08 Nov 2016 - 17:09, said: I've foolishly done a large amount in the wrong direction. Eg asking the NRM and many others who were useless. Unfair. It's not the NRM's (or the others') fault that they can't instantly convert 1950s BR paint specs (some of which were bespoke) into a German powder coating standard or an American printing standard that hadn't been invented yet. There are plenty of RAL/Pantone/BS converters on line, the fact that most historic railway paints don't match any of these is one of the joys of historical research. Quotewhich Pantone numbers would be used to represent the RAL, etc. colours used in actual loco works? They weren't used in the works, there's your problem. I haven't seen a RAL number used on a rail vehicle paint spec much before 2000 if not later. As John says, some BR colours matched BS colours, some (including Loco Green and Rail Blue) didn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
How about a Dictator Loco Class? Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Unfair. It's not the NRM's (or the others') fault that they can't instantly convert 1950s BR paint specs (some of which were bespoke) into a German powder coating standard or an American printing standard that hadn't been invented yet. There are plenty of RAL/Pantone/BS converters on line, the fact that most historic railway paints don't match any of these is one of the joys of historical research. They weren't used in the works, there's your problem. I haven't seen a RAL number used on a rail vehicle paint spec much before 2000 if not later. As John says, some BR colours matched BS colours, some (including Loco Green and Rail Blue) didn't. With the limited information I'd put in this topic so far, I can completely see why you would think it's an 'unfair' dig at them. But I'll add a little more light. (So this isn't aimed at you at all!) I had seen those things online but when you have nothing to convert from one to another they are of no use sadly. The colours I'm looking at are £60 a time so I don't want to just buy 10 near colours and see which looks the best when applied. It's a expensive. I had explained to the NRM that I wasn't looking for a shade that's 10X more accurate than the real thing etc. And at the time they had recently done some cabside numbers in their workshop to the rough shade I required. Hence you would think they had the ability to provide such data if they could be bothered. They are the 'NATIONAL RAILWAY MUSEUM' after all. So it's not like I'd not gone into a shoe shop and asked the young girl in there very complex questions about the latest NASA spacecraft or something. They weren't busy and there were staff a plenty! It's their job to answer these questions and what they claim to be good at. They have vast amounts of data on tap. If say Bachmann had asked them for help, I'd suspect all stops would have been pulled out to help. Interestingly Bachmann call this shade Yellow Y41 but that only brings up makeup shades that are definitely wrong on google. Far too yellow and not pale cream. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
How about a Dictator Loco Class? Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 My previous visit to the NRM search engine was much better. I was treated so well and bent over backwards for to such a degree that I was very impressed! So as regards fonts it looks like I'll have to follow the good advice about making numbers from scratch. I had to try that when modeling the Black Scotsman recently. As I couldn't find an exact decal in production for it. It's roughly right enough; Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 And at the time they had recently done some cabside numbers in their workshop to the rough shade I required.... It's their job to answer these questions and what they claim to be good at. They have vast amounts of data on tap. The shade you require is BR Lining Cream, as far as I am aware there is no BS number for it. I suspect that's as far as 'data' goes in this case. The NRM contract out their painting to this lot http://www.heritage-painting.com/ who may be able to help you, or who may just be using the nearest BS colour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
How about a Dictator Loco Class? Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Oh thank you, I really appreciate your kind help. That sounds good, I'll try contact them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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