RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 16 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16 (edited) 13 hours ago, Captain Cuttle said: Why hasn't it been towed away and scrapped by now? Because apparently there are features of her hull shape below the water line that are a military secret and are still present on some aircraft carriers still in service, including nuclear powered ones. United States was originally laid down as an aircraft carrier developed from the Forrestal class but Congress would not vote the funds to complete her in this form and she was completed as a passenger liner. She can only be dry docked in a US Navy yard and cannot be scrapped by an outside contractor. It for this reason that she cannot be sold to any third party for restoration or preservation either. Edited March 16 by The Johnster 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 A couple of pics from yesterday when I was procrastinating work on the train-set and went out for a walk instead to see some activity in the 'Big Ditch': The dredger 'Admiral Day' is seen working in the Manchester Ship Canal just below the Mersey confluence at Irlam. Recent heavy rains have brought silt down the river which needed to be removed. 'Admiral Day' was built in 1971 at Wivenhoe, Essex as a grab hopper dredger. Now updated with suction dredging equipment mounted on a hydraulic excavator arm, she normally works in the Mersey and this was a rare trip upstream from her base in Runcorn. She is fitted with two Lister Blackstone diesels with a power of 660bhp. I wondered if these might be a version of what was used in the Class 10 shunters, but I don't think so. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cuttle Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 On 16/03/2024 at 00:20, The Johnster said: Because apparently there are features of her hull shape below the water line that are a military secret and are still present on some aircraft carriers still in service, including nuclear powered ones. United States was originally laid down as an aircraft carrier developed from the Forrestal class but Congress would not vote the funds to complete her in this form and she was completed as a passenger liner. She can only be dry docked in a US Navy yard and cannot be scrapped by an outside contractor. It for this reason that she cannot be sold to any third party for restoration or preservation either. I am not doubting what you have said but i have been following info from various forums etc and never ever heard this mentioned before. With the continuing docking fees, i wonder why it hasnt it been sent to a US Navy yard then? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted March 18 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18 The main problem with recycling the ship is that by modern standards it's a toxic cocktail, asbestos and all sorts of nasties. Doing that safely costs ££££££££££s and ship breaking isn't the wild west it once was. Technologically any sensitivities will have lapsed decades ago, there's no mystery in installing a hideous amount of power in what by today's standards is not a particularly big ship. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cuttle Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 21 minutes ago, jjb1970 said: The main problem with recycling the ship is that by modern standards it's a toxic cocktail, asbestos and all sorts of nasties. Doing that safely costs ££££££££££s and ship breaking isn't the wild west it once was. Technologically any sensitivities will have lapsed decades ago, there's no mystery in installing a hideous amount of power in what by today's standards is not a particularly big ship. Asbestos was removed back in the 1990s in Turkey and then Ukraine. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium J. S. Bach Posted March 18 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18 Check out a book titled A MAN AND HIS SHIP to read about the ship. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted March 18 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18 8 hours ago, Captain Cuttle said: I am not doubting what you have said but i have been following info from various forums etc and never ever heard this mentioned before. With the continuing docking fees, i wonder why it hasnt it been sent to a US Navy yard then? My, totally uninformed, guess is that were she to be moved she would break up of her own accord without any assistance from mankind... 8 hours ago, jjb1970 said: The main problem with recycling the ship is that by modern standards it's a toxic cocktail, asbestos and all sorts of nasties. Doing that safely costs ££££££££££s and ship breaking isn't the wild west it once was. Technologically any sensitivities will have lapsed decades ago, there's no mystery in installing a hideous amount of power in what by today's standards is not a particularly big ship. I don't know anything about secrets and have never heard of "excess" power before but I assume that's how she won (and still holds) the Blue Riband. 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62613 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 (edited) On 18/03/2024 at 22:15, St Enodoc said: My, totally uninformed, guess is that were she to be moved she would break up of her own accord without any assistance from mankind... I don't know anything about secrets and have never heard of "excess" power before but I assume that's how she won (and still holds) the Blue Riband. A bit like the two 32,000 dwt tankers built for BP in the 1950s, which were built with sufficient speed to operate with the RN. Edited March 20 by 62613 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 The dredging on Sunday was clearly inadequate, or more silt has come down the Mersey, because an outgoing cargo ship today required assistance from a tug past the Mersey confluence (only for this short section). Meeting the tug just above Irlam Locks: Leaving Irlam Locks: Under the CLC railway bridge: Past the Mersey confluence: It was a stern tug for better guidance and steering control rather than for extra power to push through the silt, so I guess they were trying to keep right up against the near bank to avoid the shallow bit below the weir. It's very unusual to see a traffic tug in the upper reaches of the ship canal these days. MSC Volant was the last new tug bought by the Manchester Ship Canal in 1976, and is usually employed between Eastham and Stanlow along with her sisters MSC Viking, MSC Victory and MSC Viceroy. 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted March 20 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20 On 18/03/2024 at 22:15, St Enodoc said: I don't know anything about secrets and have never heard of "excess" power before but I assume that's how she won (and still holds) the Blue Riband. Speed really isn't difficult, install huge shaft power in quite a fine hull form and you will get plenty of speed. That said the propeller law which is a good indicator is that the relationship between power and speed is cubic, so you reach a point where you need massive additional power for a minimal speed increase. The other thing about speed is that as with cars there's a tendency for people to exaggerate. Just as there are (apparently......) cooking model Ford Focus and Vauxhall Astra cars with superior performance to hot hatch versions so lots of ships are claimed to be capable of faster speeds than reality. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Simon Lee Posted March 21 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21 On 18/03/2024 at 14:56, Captain Cuttle said: I am not doubting what you have said but i have been following info from various forums etc and never ever heard this mentioned before. With the continuing docking fees, i wonder why it hasnt it been sent to a US Navy yard then? I did think the same, having looked at the SS United States Conservancy website www.ssusc.org they makes no mention of the Dockyard requirement, and having being towed to Turkey and Ukraine for asbestos removal it would appear to be at odds with what it is quoted above. Interesting that her propellers are preserved and on public display SSUSPropellers2021.pdf (squarespace.com) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted March 24 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24 (edited) Today we went on an enjoyable one-hour harbour cruise from the National Maritime Museum in Darling Harbour. Our steed was one of the Sydney Heritage Fleet's vessels, MV Berrima from 1955. https://shfmember.org.au/explore-the-fleet/our-operational-vessels/berrima-1955-motor-launch/ After passing under the Harbour Bridge, we saw this floating block of flats being bunkered by ICS Reliance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebrity_Edge https://www.incoships.com.au/ics-reliance There's not much true commercial shipping left on Sydney Harbour, but on the north side Akuna was inbound although the sun was in the wrong place for a photo. I did catch her, from a distance as she was berthing at White Bay, close to Pioneer. https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/details/9470806 https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/details/9111436 Back at Darling Harbour, we passed the replica of Captain Cook's Endeavour before berthing, just in time to walk up the road for Sunday roast at a pub overlooking the harbour. https://www.sea.museum/whats-on/our-fleet/hmb-endeavour A pleasant way to spend half an autumn Sunday. Edited March 24 by St Enodoc 14 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Marsbar Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 The rather odd looking USNS John Glenn moored in Oakland last week....... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_John_Glenn Not sure what is happening to that vessel at the moment as it's only 10 years old but was listed for decomissioning last year according to an Internet search. 6 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Yesterday evening I saw shipping movements at dusk for the first time since we have moved to Teignmouth. VULIN sailed for Rotterdam loaded with ball clay, while VESPER arrived from Klaipeda. The port tug/dredger TEIGN C was again acting as pilot boat. These shipping movements always attract attention from folk along the sea front and back beach. Port tug/dredger TEIGN C escorts VULIN away from the Western Quay at Teignmouth on the start of the journey to Rotterdam, 24/3/2024 VULIN is about to make the turn to port, Shaldon is on the far bank. 24/3/2024 As VULIN heads away for Rotterdam TEGN C conveys the pilot to the VESPER inbound from Klaipeda. 24/3/2024 VESPER passes the Point with Shaldon and The Ness across the River Teign. 24/3/2024 Almost there. VESPER heads toward the Western Quay at Teignmouth with TEIGN C in close attendance. VESPER will now swing and berth facing downstream. 24/3/2024 cheers 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 @Mol_PMB 's mention of dredgers has reminded me of a tale of woe, on how not to do it. Quote Welcome to Lochmaddy Marina. Due to an ongoing incident the marina is closed. DO NOT ATTEND. Visiting yachts cannot be accommodated. The marina has now been assessed and has been written off due to the damages sustained when the area around the marina was being dredged. What happened? It appears (allegedly, as lawyers are involved) that work was being done on the near-by pier and Lochmaddy Ferry Terminal, which included some dredging work. But the sub-contractors (allegedly) failed to check where the marina's pontoon anchor chains were, before they started dredging. The result? Quote To summarise, the marina was catastrophically damaged when it was dragged eastwards circa 5 meters or so by a dredger that had not been instructed by us. We were aware of planned works yet had asked for additional information to be provided before the planned work commenced. That information never came and the marina was destroyed to the value of several hundred thousand pounds as a result of this piece of work for the pier project. https://lochmaddymarina.scot/elementor-1281 Is Lochmaddy jinxed? Quote CalMac ferry runs aground in Lochmaddy harbour crash https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-37466864 3 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Ouch! It looked so serene beforehand: 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WessexEclectic Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 If you ever find yourself wondering what to do next when in Lisbon (PT), an interesting couple of hours can be spent in the Museu de Marinha for which the queue and entrance fee are considerably smaller than for the Jerónimos Monastery (same building). The models pictured are 1:20 scale but there are several other galleries of models of various sizes and scales including naval, commercial and fisheries vessels. The museum cafe also does a nice line in the local Pastéis de Nata from the original shop - but, again, without the queue of tourists... 7 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 On 03/12/2023 at 04:16, kevinlms said: I don't know a great deal about ships, but I suspect the Hobart Harbour Master is 100% correct on this issue, especially considering this bridge has collapsed before, after being hit! https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-03/icebreaker-nuyina-hit-hobart-tasman-bridge-in-modelling/103158228 A fuel barge seems to be the obvious solution. This morning's news reminded me of this discussion a few months ago 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WessexEclectic Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 7 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: This morning's news reminded me of this discussion a few months ago Allegedly, a benefit of the Baltimore 'Key' bridge being a toll bridge turned out to be that when the mayday went out at about 0120ishLT, the toll barrier operators were able to stop vehicles crossing the bridge before the ship hit the structure at 0130ishLT. Thus as far as I am aware, the only people on the bridge at the collapse were a road crew repairing potholes. BBC News Link 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Some Ferguson news that's not a surprise? Quote The head of the company building two delayed and over-budget CalMac ferries has been sacked. Chief executive David Tydeman's contract was terminated by Ferguson Marine as the board attempt to ensure the company's "long-term future". The exact reasons for his departure have not been revealed. It comes as the Scottish government said there would "likely" be further delays to the delivery of Glen Sannox, which was due in May. The cost of the two ferries is running at nearly four times the initial £97m cost and they will be delivered six years late. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-68666020 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WessexEclectic Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 9 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said: Some Ferguson news that's not a surprise? Quote The head of the company building two delayed and over-budget CalMac ferries has been sacked. Pythonesque.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted March 27 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 27 Ferguson need high quality people in senior positions but who is going to take such a poisoned chalice? They either need to pay £££££££s to get the right people (to offset reputational risk for someone with a choice of where to work) or employ people happy to go there as it's the best option for them. In the former the media and Scottish politicians would probably have a field day with the usual stuff about corporate fat cats etc, in the latter case you're probably going to get more of the same type of people who dug the yard into a hole in the first place. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted March 27 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 27 Queen Victoria visiting Singapore. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted March 27 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 27 A couple of MOL ACE car carriers, Orchid Ace in the standard colours and the brand new (handed over this month) LNG fuelled Cerulean Ace. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted March 27 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 27 One of the smaller PIL container ships arriving in the anchorage as one of MSC's big ladies passes by in the distance entering Pasir Panjang. 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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