Geography

[The Stationmaster]

Let he (she/insert gender identification of preference) who is without sin cast the first... I have memories of a GSCE Geography field trip from the Midlands to Yorkshire/Cumbria, where most of my classmates had no idea where they actually were. This was the late 1980s so most of a generation away from universally available mobile navigation devices of whatever shape or form, I was the only one in the back of the van who could provide answers to the oft-repeated question "are we there yet?".

 

We went on a A level geography field trip to Dorset, in cars driven by A Level students - so we must have known where we were going (and we did of course as we went to all the right places).

 

A group of us in the school CCF were on what was fondly know as 'Arduous Training' one Easter and a thick fog came down while we were on a mountainside above Blaenau Ffestiniog.  The only way we could safely move, with a very nasty sheer drop to one side, was on compass bearings over short distances (because we could see no further) and we had to adjust for the magnetic variation on the Army issue OS maps we were using - all simple stuff for A Level geography students in the mid-1960s.

 

But equally there were back then plenty of folk about with limited geographical knowledge of their own country although i suspect that even in Britain it is worse now that it was then and lots of people rely solely on electronic navigation without the first idea of how to read a map.

[The Lurker]

My history O level was European History 1848-1939. We looked at 4 countries - Russia, Germany, Italy and France, with excursions into other countries at certain times eg 1848, where I recall (maybe correctly) that Lajos Kossuth was a major figure in the Hungarian 1848 revolution.

 

At A level we covered British history from 1832 - approx. 1959 (we certainly covered Suez), as well as more European history between the two world wars.

 

In a bid to avoid studying Hitler again, I chose a History degree where I could study other periods and other countries, covering things like the Anglo Saxons, Ancient Persians, Vikings, Genghis Khan, Marco Polo, the Taiping revolution amongst others

[APOLLO]

Geography & Chemistry were my favourite subjects at Wigan Grammar School. Our Geography teacher was a cruel so & so though !!. In History we studied the U.K. Industrial Revolution 1700 to 1900, (Social, Political & Economic History), so none of the King & Queen milarkey - I found that very interesting too - especially the railways bit !!

 

First two years (which I hated) we did everything, In the third year I gave up Music (!!!), Woodwork, Metalwork (handy at making fishing rod rests and angle plates !!) French and the dreaded Latin. What a completely useless and boring subject that was - mind you when I watch Monty Pythons "Life of Brian" it comes back to memory with a smile !!

 

I completed my O levels and departed ASAP, ceremoniously burning cap and tie on the last day !! - The North Western Gas Board followed, ONC & HNC engineering, City & Guilds Gas Fitting, etc etc - all damn useful stuff and a life at last !!!!

 

Brit15

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Back when I was at secondary school (late 70s-early 80s), the first 3 years of History was a skim through British history from the Roman era to the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, with particular emphasis on the Tudors. The 19th Century was almost entirely missing...

Experience from a good decade earlier, that matches my recollection: but we also got WWI, subtitled 'consquences of the industrial revolution'. This was useful in providing a background to what happened when on this island. The rest of the world clearly didn't have any history worth the bother of discussion. It all happened here.

 

...Then the 4th and 5th years (the actual O Level syllabus) covered the 20th Century in Europe and the USA. Particularly the Russian Revolution, the rise of the Nazis, the Great Depression and the early stages of the Cold War, up to about Cuba. I got an A by the way, but would be hard pushed to explain how.

Our O level lot fell on the late Medieval period, so I am fully up to speed on strip farming, rat immigration, 'bring out your dead', lost villages, enclosures, revolting peasants, commutation; none of which has proved of significant use since. I know how I got an A though, regurgitation. Using your own words, repeat what the prof wrote in the big blue Universities Press textbook: we were left in no doubt that this was the true path to a grade...

 

I learned vastly more useful history from the O level subject titled 'Geography', which was truly global in its reach.

[Jinty3f]

Many many years ago, at the age of 19, and a student teacher, I made up the numbers on a Geography field trip to the Lake District. Although not a Geographer, I was lured by the expectation of boozy evenings with mates in some isolated pub up in the hills, and sure enough, such a hostelry was found, frequented only by morose Cumbrians who nursed their pints in gloomy corners of the bar. As students do, we were a bit noisy and full of ourselves, and one old man sitting near the fire, glared and said (in a broad Cumbrian accent), "What you'm all studying then lads?" He accepted a pint, and after ruminating for a few moments, announced he would ask us a few questions about Cumbria. "Right, " he said, "if you'm be on the mountain track an you'm see lots o figgy type lumps on't ground, what does that tell you?" All the geographers knew that this was sheep sh it and the old guy nodded, well impressed. After a moments thought he tried again. "Well, if you'm see lots o' currants all over't ground, what's that then?" The geographers confidently identified them as rabbit droppings.and the old man nodded approvingly. After a moment, he looked up and went for the kill. "You lads know what a batholith is?" There was a stunned silence among the geographers, and various, wrong guesses were made, until in the end, they gave up. "It's a rock outcrop," said the old guy. He took a sip of his beer, and muttered, loud enough so his mates could hear him, "You lads know more 'bout sh it than Geography."

[rockershovel]

... it seems almost churlish to point out that although a batholith iS an igneous intrusion which MAY WELL be a rock outcrop, it may NOT outcrop at all, and many kinds of rock outcrops (for example, the limestone of the Northern Dales) are not batholiths at all.

 

Which serves to demonstrate another important principle, that what you hear from "some bloke in the pub" may well not be true...

Edited September 25, 2017 by rockershovel

[EddieB]

On the other hand, a batholith could be a lizard that turns you to stone, if spoken by an old boy who forgot to put his teeth in...

 

(Better not to start a debate on whether granite is an igneous or a metamorphic rock.)

[pH]

Empire Day was changed to Commonwealth Day in 1958, but there was little awareness of it, then or now (oddly enough it seems to have retained quite a high profile in Canada).

I can honestly say, despite having lived in Canada for over 35 years, I had never heard of either Empire Day or Commonwealth Day until I read about them in this topic. The public holiday that I know of which is surprisingly celebrated in Canada more than in the UK is Victoria Day, honouring Queen Victoria's birthday. It falls on the last Monday before May 25, and is generally considered to mark the start of "summer".

[APOLLO]

In Wigan we had Tin Batholiths !!

 

 

Friday neet was bath neet - last one in't queue got cold mucky water !!!

 

Brit15

[Danemouth]

I remember Empire Day in the 1950's.  At Junior  School we got a half day!

 

Dave

[Classsix T]

On the other hand, a batholith could be a lizard that turns you to stone, if spoken by an old boy who forgot to put his teeth in...

 

Quite so, just as a myth is a female moth.

True dat.

 

C6T.

[EddieB]

I remember Empire Day in the 1950's.  At Junior  School we got a half day!

 

Dave

Is that because we only had half an Empire in the 1950s?

[rockershovel]

I'm reliably informed that the Canadians suggested it be changed to "Commonwealth Day" , the occasion having largely fallen into disregard here by then.

 

I remember CCF Arduous Training though, a great thing if you were of a suitably robust disposition. We used to make protracted trips up the A1 in Land Rovers towing trailers full of stinking canvas tents, pick up prodigious quantities of tinned "compo ration" at Catterick and spend two weeks in Scotland or N Wales. It was great.

[Ozexpatriate]

One hopes that President Trump is not on the way to fulfilling (again) the well-known saying of Ambrose Bierce (1842-1914)

 

"War is God's way of teaching Americans Geography"

Tricky to source, this quote is.

 

One online source offers the following:

Quote Investigator and other researchers have located no substantive evidence that Ambrose Bierce or Mark Twain spoke or wrote this quip. The expression is part of a family of remarks and jokes that has been evolving since the 1800s.

 

In 1879 the periodical “Rose-Belford’s Canadian Monthly” printed a table listing numerous ports in Central and South America. The article claimed that readers would learn new geographical facts while following stories about warfare. The tone of this precursor observation was not humorous. Boldface has been added to excerpts:

The following list of ports of call between Panama and Valparaiso contains the name of every important point on the coast, and gives the relative positions of many places which, if the war continues, will become familiar, for whatever evil war brings in its train, it has value in teaching us geography.

Remarks of this type appeared in publications in Canada, France, the United Kingdom and the United States. By the 1920s instances with a clearly sardonic tone were in circulation.

[Ozexpatriate]

I was told by an American, but cannot verify the statement, that over 70% Americans never leave the state they were born in and less than 10% have a passport.

By my calculation, State Department statistics demonstrate at least 41% have a passport - not counting foreign residents who have passports issued by other countries.  This number has steadily increased every year for 30 years - even counting 9/11.

 

131,841,062 active passports in 2016

323,100,000 (population of the US)

 

Other estimates are as high as 48%, and even Mississippi is close to 20%.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Ozexpatriate

[teaky]

In Wigan we had Tin Batholiths !!

 

 

Friday neet was bath neet - last one in't queue got cold mucky water !!!

 

Brit15

Which one are you?

[jjb1970]

I completed my O levels and departed ASAP, ceremoniously burning cap and tie on the last day !! - The North Western Gas Board followed, ONC & HNC engineering, City & Guilds Gas Fitting, etc etc - all damn useful stuff and a life at last !!!!

 

Brit15

Nothing wrong with a vocational education, I did a MN cadetship after school at the end of which I had an HND and class 4 engineers certificate of competency, and it has served me well in life despite my teachers assuring me I was wasting my life by not going to university and that I'd never make anything of my life if I threw away the opportunity to go to university. I did my degree and masters in later life after doing my chief engineers certificate of competency and it is the fact that I know what an engine is and how ships work in the way that you can't learn from a book that has given me value to employers more than my university qualifications even though I'd not have the jobs I've had in recent years without a degree. I find it sad that there seem still to be so many teachers who actively seek to dissuade their pupils from going down the vocational route when for many youngsters it is still a more appropriate route than university.

[jjb1970]

By my calculation, State Department statistics demonstrate at least 41% have a passport - not counting foreign residents who have passports issued by other countries.  This number has steadily increased every year for 30 years - even counting 9/11.

 

131,841,062 active passports in 2016

323,100,000 (population of the US)

 

Other estimates are as high as 48%, and even Mississippi is close to 20%.

Never let a fact get in the way of an opportunity to feel superior to American's and have a good laugh at their expense, because as we know, all British and European people are models of wisdom who know the world inside out.

[Ozexpatriate]

Empire Day was changed to Commonwealth Day in 1958, but there was little awareness of it, then or now (oddly enough it seems to have retained quite a high profile in Canada).

I can honestly say, despite having lived in Canada for over 35 years, I had never heard of either Empire Day or Commonwealth Day until I read about them in this topic. The public holiday that I know of which is surprisingly celebrated in Canada more than in the UK is Victoria Day, honouring Queen Victoria's birthday. It falls on the last Monday before May 25, and is generally considered to mark the start of "summer".

I remember Empire Day in the 1950's.  At Junior  School we got a half day!

I'm reliably informed that the Canadians suggested it be changed to "Commonwealth Day" , the occasion having largely fallen into disregard here by then.

Empire Day (originally falling on May 24, Queen Victoria's birthday) was renamed to Commonwealth Day in 1958, and then redesignated in Australia as the Queen's Birthday holiday (QEII) in 1966 and moved to June 11.

 

It was traditionally cracker (fireworks) night before such things were banned. Guy Fawkes night was celebrated with fireworks in Australia, but I remember cracker night been more associated with the Queen's Birthday holiday. Any Guy Fawkes celebrations ended with the banning of fireworks.

 

The Queen's Birthday holiday in Australia is celebrated on as many as three different days in different states. In WA it falls in the last Monday in September and in QLD it falls on the first Monday in October.

 

Labour Day is even more confusing in Australia. There are four of them.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Ozexpatriate

[Ozexpatriate]

Never let a fact get in the way of an opportunity to feel superior

"Never confuse a good story with the facts" as my old boss used to enjoy saying.

[jjb1970]

"Never confuse a good story with the facts" as my old boss used to enjoy saying.

Or as a former boss of mine liked to say "the trouble with xxxxx is half the lies he tells aren't true".

[teaky]

I'll just leave this here.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-41393230

[bertiedog]

Is that the same Birmingham that Telly Savalas spoke about?

https://youtu.be/9EGWCG8fq9A

 

Try to keep a straight face through the video..........

Edited September 26, 2017 by bertiedog

[The Stationmaster]

I'm reliably informed that the Canadians suggested it be changed to "Commonwealth Day" , the occasion having largely fallen into disregard here by then.

 

I remember CCF Arduous Training though, a great thing if you were of a suitably robust disposition. We used to make protracted trips up the A1 in Land Rovers towing trailers full of stinking canvas tents, pick up prodigious quantities of tinned "compo ration" at Catterick and spend two weeks in Scotland or N Wales. It was great.

 

Land Rovers!!!  We almost invariably got a 3-tonner and a Champ (if a second vehicle was needed - usually with everything plastered in khaki paint so on one occasion while trying to engage 4wd our CO (the Games Master) actually engaged the winch with a resultant much tangled winch cable.  However one year the issuing depot made a very big error and gave us a brand new Land Rover with only delivery mileage on the clock.

 

We had some of our own tents but all our military stores usually came from Brecon and at summer camp (always in Mid Wales) they were sent by rail to the nearest station (Machynlleth).

[The Stationmaster]

Nothing wrong with a vocational education, I did a MN cadetship after school at the end of which I had an HND and class 4 engineers certificate of competency, and it has served me well in life despite my teachers assuring me I was wasting my life by not going to university and that I'd never make anything of my life if I threw away the opportunity to go to university. I did my degree and masters in later life after doing my chief engineers certificate of competency and it is the fact that I know what an engine is and how ships work in the way that you can't learn from a book that has given me value to employers more than my university qualifications even though I'd not have the jobs I've had in recent years without a degree. I find it sad that there seem still to be so many teachers who actively seek to dissuade their pupils from going down the vocational route when for many youngsters it is still a more appropriate route than university.

My entry to the working world was similar - left school after A Levels and onto the railway (after spending an intervening couple of months working in the local brewery waiting for the BR starting date) then wholly within BR for the following 34 years learning both on the job and via internal evening courses plus the Management Training Scheme and the Middle Management Course.  Classic BR career development and all relevant in various ways to different posts I held over the years and which stood me in good stead for subsequent consultancy work.

 

Interesting to make a comparison with those of my school fellows who went to uni - salary wise (not necessarily an ideal comparator for all sorts of reasons) I don't think I lost out compared with them.  Job interest wise I think I won by a large margin but then I would say that wouldn't I although very few of them got around Europe or further afield than I have managed for work related reasons.  Skills wise is an interesting comparison because I undoubtedly have a wider range of trained & acquired skills in various fields than all of those I still know anything about.  So overall variety wise I don't think I lost out in any way - apart from a few letters after my name - by not going to uni and in many respects I think I probably benefitted from an earlier entry to the workplace.

 

Another interesting comparison is with my contemporary Management Trainees as the vast majority were graduates.  A few of them rose to pretty high levels in the industry with a couple becoming MDs of operating companies post privatisation while one or two others rose to Executive grade level elsewhere in the industry and one who left has done very well in another area but the majority of those who stayed in the railway didn't do any better promotion wise that us non-graduates.   So perhaps it isn't all down to having a uni education but to many other things instead.   Incidentally my former Headmaster spoke to me a few months after I left school and asked 'where I was' - when I told him it was very clear from his face that my failure to progress in academia amounted to some sort of eternal damnation;  there is still a lot to be said for the vocational route, whatever he might have thought.