Eastern Region A2 Class

[Blobrick]

Hi guys

 

With the forth comming release of Bachmann's A2 Class locos, I was wondering how far south on the E.C.M.L they got during the 1950s when almost all of them were sheded in Scotland, in fact I believe that only one loco remained allocated to an English shed at this time. The only other information I have uncovered so far is that one of the class attained 100 MPH on Stoke Bank in the last years of E.C.M.L. steam. Can anyone help

 

Regards

Blobrick

[Ed-farms]

Looking at Gavin Morrisons Powerof the A2 book, it does not look like a common occuance. I can only find 1 photo of 60533 Happy Knight entering Copenhagen tunnel with a train from Peterborough - 60533 was shedded at New England, Copley Hill, Grantham, Kings Cross and Doncaster during its short life - quite a lot of times acccording to the records in the book. The only other Peppercorn A2 to be shedded south of the border in the 50's was 60526 Sugar Palm at Yorks and Leeds but I cannot see anything which suggests she went too far south.

[Blobrick]

Thanks for that reply, looks like I am going to be struggling to justify an A2 on my GN 1950s period layout

[The Stationmaster]

According to my 1962 ABC I had seen at least 20 of them and I hadn't been north of York on the mainline by then. But of course that is based on sightings which would include passing through Donny - basically in the period from c.1957 onwards I would think.

[Mallard60022]

[quote name='Blobrick' date='02 April 2010 - 11:35 ' timestamp='1270204514' post='113988']

Thanks for that reply, looks like I am going to be struggling to justify an A2 on my GN 1950s period layout

 

Footy/Rugby/Hockey special? Donny running in turn? Locomotive Society special? Test train? Fish special? Private charter from a Company/Factory? It's your layout, buy several; go on, you know you need to!

Sincerely, Phil 36E

[gordon s]

I also recall seeing A2's at Kings Cross in the late 50's. Checking Yeadons gave the following info.

 

60533 Happy Knight was shedded at New England, Grantham and Kings Cross in the 50's.

 

There are pics of Blue Peter and Sayajirao at KX.

 

 

[Blobrick]

"It's your layout, buy several; go on, you know you need to! "

 

Thanks for the laugh Phil, glad to know there's someone else out there who understands!!!!!

 

Blobrick

[cbeagleowner]

isn't the onlt thing you need to say for every NE pacific 'running in from Donny works visit'?

[38c]

One for the GC fans 60533 spent a week sheded at Annesley for bridge test I think.

 

Regards Dave

[Oldddudders]

Heck! I never got further north than Finsbury Park until years after steam had left ECML, but even I had seen Dante, Chamossaire and Sun Castle! Even the nit-pickiest nitpicker can be successfully rebuffed on this one - they did get to London!

[cbeagleowner]

I think the OP is thinking Pep A2's specifically.

[Galtee More]

Hi guys

 

With the forth comming release of Bachmann's A2 Class locos, I was wondering how far south on the E.C.M.L they got during the 1950s when almost all of them were sheded in Scotland, in fact I believe that only one loco remained allocated to an English shed at this time. The only other information I have uncovered so far is that one of the class attained 100 MPH on Stoke Bank in the last years of E.C.M.L. steam. Can anyone help

 

Regards

Blobrick

All of the Peppercorn A2 Pacifics were initially allocated to English depots. Most transferred north of the border, but some did spend all or part of their working life in England, including the south end of the ex-GNR mainline.

 

60533 spent its whole life in England and was allocated as follows:

NWE 4/48 - 5/48

COP 5/48 - 12/48

NWE 4/50 - 6/54

GRA 6/54 - 9/56

NWE 9/56 - 9/57

GRA 9/57 - 6/58

KX 6/58 - 12/58

GRA 121/58 - 6/59

NWE 6/59 - 1/60

DON 1/60 - 9/62

NWE 9/62 - 6/63

 

60538 spent smost of its life at English depots and its allocations were:

GHD 6/48 - 5/60

HTN 5/60 10/61

TWD 10/61 - 11/62

 

60539 also spent most of its life at English depots and its allocations were:

HTN 8/48 - 10/61

TWD 10/61 - 11/62

 

 

The shed codes given are the original LNER codes. If you're unsure, just ask.

 

 

If you intend purchasing Bachmann models, and then re-numbering and re-naming, then beware, because the class can be a bit of a minefield. Most of the class were fitted with single chimnies and self-cleaning apparatus. Of those listed abouve, 60533 & 538 were fitted with double Kylchap blastpipe and double chimney, and the SC equipment removed, in 1949. These two were also fitted ith multiple valve regulators, with the control linkage running down the right-hand sie of the boiler. This was to assess the equipment in advance of building the BR tmt Britannia Pacifics. 60539 was so fitted when built.

 

A seemingly not generally known fact is that the last-built of the class, 60539, was fitted with the front bogie intended for 60114, the first-built of the A1 class and vice versa. Perhaps only a minor point, but A1 and A2 bogies are different.

 

So, the answer is YES, you most certainly can run a Peppercorn A2 on a layout depicting the south end of the ex-GNR mainline. As others have pointed out, there is always the running-in turns from Doncaster after repair. Running-in turns, though, tended to be only as far as Barkstone Junction and, sometimes, Grantham

[Galtee More]

Heck! I never got further north than Finsbury Park until years after steam had left ECML, but even I had seen Dante, Chamossaire and Sun Castle! Even the nit-pickiest nitpicker can be successfully rebuffed on this one - they did get to London!

 

 

The OP refers to the new Bachmann model. This will be a Peppercorn Class A2. Unfortunately the three you mention are all Thompson Class A2/3s

[DavidBelcher]

 

60533 spent its whole life in England and was allocated as follows:

NWE 4/48 - 5/48

COP 5/48 - 12/48

NWE 4/50 - 6/54

GRA 6/54 - 9/56

NWE 9/56 - 9/57

GRA 9/57 - 6/58

KX 6/58 - 12/58

GRA 121/58 - 6/59

NWE 6/59 - 1/60

DON 1/60 - 9/62

NWE 9/62 - 6/63

 

Happy Knight also allegedly spent a month based at Annesley in the '50s, according to Gavin Morrison's book. Are there any GC route sightings to back this up, or was it a "paper only" transfer?

 

David

[38c]

Re GC and A2,s 60526 Sugar Palm visited marlybone in 1952 and again in 1956 on FA specials.Both times sheded York.Also 60535 Hornets Beauty in 1950 on a fitted freight.

 

 

Regards Dave

[DaveF]

In the late 50's/ early 60's I occasionally went to Grantham and have the following underlined in my Ian Allan abc's:

 

60525 A H Peppercorn

60526 Sugar Palm (double chimney/multiple valve regulator)

60527 Sun Chariot

60531 Bahram

 

David

[Galtee More]

Hi guys

 

The only other information I have uncovered so far is that one of the class attained 100 MPH on Stoke Bank in the last years of E.C.M.L. steam. Can anyone help

 

Regards

Blobrick

 

According to the RCTS 'Lcomotives of the LNER', Part 2A, page 190, in 1961 60526 Sugar Palm, was timed at 101mph on the descent from Stoke with the up West Riding.

 

Happy Knight also allegedly spent a month based at Annesley in the '50s, according to Gavin Morrison's book. Are there any GC route sightings to back this up, or was it a "paper only" transfer?

 

David

 

Sorry, I've been unable to find any confirmation of this, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, of course. I'll keep searching.

[Mallard60022]

"It's your layout, buy several; go on, you know you need to! "

Thanks for the laugh Phil, glad to know there's someone else out there who understands!!!!!

Blobrick

 

That's OK brick! I must hasten to add that I don't work for, or have any connection with any Company that produce A2s! I'm just jealous and feeling guilty that I have still only part built my three different 'designs/rebuilds' (in EM).

Fortunately my rather unfinished/partly demolished layout is based near Heaton so I can have A2s all over the place!

I'm going to spend some time staring at the Bachmann product at York tomorrow; yum, yum!

Just wait till they have a sound system AND smoke generator; THAT will really be something along with all the other Pacifics.

36E

[Poor Old Bruce]

I remember seeing 'Hornets Beauty' at Grantham (possibly ex-works?) in the early 60s. Not a Peppercorn one but 60516 'Hycilla' got to Derby on Easter Monday or Tuesday 1962 and went back north the following day while 46121, off Polmadie, worked Leeds-Bristol and back on the same days (off topic but interesting nevertheless and gives me an excuse for even more variety on Duffield).

 

Richard

[38c]

Refering to 60526 and 101 mph. This is refered to in British Pacific Locomotives by Cecil J Allen published 1962. It also states that it is the only authentic recording of a 6ft 2in ex L.N.E.R.loco exceeding 100mph at Essendine.

 

Regards Dave

[Mallard60022]

[quote name='Poor Old Bruce' date='10 April 2010 - 09:25 ' timestamp='1270887904' post='118804']

I remember seeing 'Hornets Beauty' at Grantham (possibly ex-works?) in the early 60s. Not a Peppercorn one but 60516 'Hycilla' got to Derby on Easter Monday or Tuesday 1962 and went back north the following day while 46121, off Polmadie, worked Leeds-Bristol and back on the same days (off topic but interesting nevertheless and gives me an excuse for even more variety on Duffield).

 

Richard

 

Those were the days! I lived in Plymouth and hardly anything unusual got that far west in the late 50's early 60's even on the summer extras, however there were specials with 'rare' motive power towards the end of steam.

I think Bristol was probably the furthest place west that one could never quite know what might turn up? Is that the case or was Newton Abbot a candidate?

36E (ex 83D)

[Poor Old Bruce]

Those were the days! I lived in Plymouth and hardly anything unusual got that far west in the late 50's early 60's even on the summer extras, however there were specials with 'rare' motive power towards the end of steam.

I think Bristol was probably the furthest place west that one could never quite know what might turn up? Is that the case or was Newton Abbot a candidate?

36E (ex 83D)

I would suggest Bristol with workings from the LM, E and NE regions on the Midland Line and from Shrewsbury and Hereford way (or did they go onto Newport and reverse?). I think the only regular through train on the Midland was the 'Devonian' from Bradford to Paignton (with a bit of luck I will turn up at 247's stand one day and he will actually have a headboard in stock!).

 

Not that this has anything to do with A2s of course but I do like lateral thinking.

 

Richard

[locoholic]

Does anyone know of any photos of a double chimney Peppercorn A2 with the later lipped chimney, coupled to a tender with the early BR crest?

 

The reason being that I'm fed up waiting for Bachmann to release a late crest single chimney A2, and was thinking of carrying out a tender transplant.

[Ed-farms]

Does anyone know of any photos of a double chimney Peppercorn A2 with the later lipped chimney, coupled to a tender with the early BR crest?

 

The reason being that I'm fed up waiting for Bachmann to release a late crest single chimney A2, and was thinking of carrying out a tender transplant.

 

Why not just change the crest on the tender? There is no certainty the shade of green on both models will match

[R Marshall]

The double chmney A2s - 60526/29/32/33/38 - got their revised chimney arrangements in 1949, according to RCTS Part 2A, so all would have been coupled to tenders with the early crest. The other double chimney A2, 60539 Bronzino, was built with a double chimney in 1950, but it didn't have a multiple valve regulator - instead of the casing for the regulator, it had the more usual anti-vacuum valve, as on the A1s.

 

The original double chimneys were of the plain beaded variety (as on Farish 60147 and on the new build Tornado in apple green mode). Lipped chimneys were fitted later, almost certainly while the early crest was in play, but I don't have dates.

 

RCTS Part 2A shows 60526 with lipped chimney and early crest at York in December 1955.

 

After an initial allocation of New England (5), York (4), Gateshead (4), Heaton (1), Haymarket (1) in 1949, the pattern settled as Scottish Region (11), North Eastern (3 60526/38/39), Eastern (1 60533). 60539 Bronzino was seen frequently in London up to 1951 - less often thereafter. 60526 Sugar Palm was also in London often.

 

All credit to the wonderful RCTS series on LNER Loomotives - as stated above, 60526 was timed at 101mph down Stoke Bank in 1961.