Factory fitted on board lighting - realistic or gimmicky ?

[Guest Phil]

After having a play with a couple of my diesels recently I became a little bemused at the realism of the factory fitted on board lighting. Hornby blue skinhead 31111 straight out of the box was showing "Persil" white marker lights where the discs are fitted, with equally bright twin tail lights on the other end.

 

D95 from Bachmann has simply dazzling 1S 64 headcodes - white digits on a black background, also sporting the ultra bright twin taillights.

 

Whilst post 1997ish models look particularly good with those dazzling headlights and taillights - particularly the EMDs etc, a 1960s green diesel looks equally unrealistic in my eyes. A locomotive in those days was fitted with a very yellow, filament style bulb for each marker light - headlights being a feature for the future. Taillights were used singly until at least the mid 1980s.

 

Am I on my own in thinking that LED style lighting on pre 1990s models is gimmicky rather than realistic ?

[Grovenor]

Am I on my own in thinking that LED style lighting on pre 1990s models is gimmicky rather than realistic ?

No, you are not alone.

 

And not only did 60s green diesels not have two bright red taillights the fitted lights were hardly ever used on the running line as oil tail lamps were mandatory.

Keith

[Jamie]

I think Jim SW touched on this in his blog.

 

I don't so much see it as gimmicky, but certainly overstated for the most part. As I'll not be running the layout in the pitch darkness, I didn't refit the headcode lighting to my 27s when working on them, and have disconnected the tail-lamp bulbs. I don't want the illumination to be visible in the modelled "daytime".

 

There's a few things 'presumed' to be realistic in the hobby which aren't really.

[Coombe Barton]

Is it possible to dim the lights by using some boy-racer type car window foil so that only a proportion of the light is transmitted? I have no idea how practicable this is. I use the foil on glass to produce half silvered mirrors for autocues at work. (I make these for about £50 whereas professional autocue systems seem to come in at four figurs of pounds.) You have to get the grey stuff, not the gold, obviously, as it works lust like a neutral density photographic filter.

['CHARD]

 

D95 from Bachmann has simply dazzling 1S 64 headcodes - white digits on a black background, also sporting the ultra bright twin taillights.

 

 

 

Simply dazzling 1S64,

 

quote of the holiday weekend mate, awesome

[Pacific231G]

I bought a Lilliput 140C at Ally Pally and noticed that the forward lights were a bright blueish white. Photos of these locos in their latter days do show a blue glass in the front oil lamps but this was to turn the yellow light of the oil lamps white. I aways understood that in the UK with predominately double track the front lights were marker lights and not headlights for the driver as these would have dazzled the drivers of oncoming trains and made signal lamps harder to see. When (if at all) did this change?

[Edwin_m]

When (if at all) did this change?

 

Started in the early 70s with class 87 being the first to have a high-intensity headlight - they and all subsequent new build were fitted from new and all other classes were eventually retrofitted though this process took well over a decade. At the same time built in tail lights became brighter and therefore more visible in daytime so that a lamp on a bracket was no longer considered necessary to confirm to the signalman that the train was complete.

 

Initially I think the main purpose was to make trains more visible to track workers. On straight enough track the light is visible from about a mile away! Later on, when all trains were fitted, retro-reflective signs replaced the (few) illuminated ones. The latest requirements for lights on new stock specify a day and a night light to reduce the dazzle problem.

[Marty Mc]

Hi

 

I must say thats the beauty of dcc you can dim them with a change of a cv or add extra resistance in. If you really cant do the above and you think its "gimmicky"

leave them off.

 

Here is a OO class 20 I added extra resistance to with "gimmicky" lights.

 

 

I add lights to everything that had lights, I see it is prototypical, it enhances the fun factor, not just for me but kids I enjoy doing it and I can do it. I think you will find far more people want it than not or else the manufacturers would not be adding these extra's. Sure they may be to bright but you do have the ability to fix that.

 

Martin

[Jinty3f]

At the other extreme, you have some Heljan locos which include front and rear lights which are so dim, it is hard to see them at all even in subdued light. It may be prototypical but may as well not be there. Heljan 26s use a) filament bulbs which are very dim, and have a short life, and B) transmit the light via a poorly molded and delicate plastic channel which loses more light in transit. And to me, not as much fun at all. I like to see the lights!

 

JD

[Jinty3f]

....didn't realise tha b bracket gave a smiley!

 

JD

[Ron Ron Ron]

IMHO working lights are definitely not a gimmick, but the implementation is far from satisfactory. All of the RTR manufacturers are failing in this regard.

 

Apart from the over-brightness issue, there are models which have an incomplete set of lights, some that use shared bulbs/LED's to illuminate lights that should be able to work independently and models with lights that don't work properly when a DCC decoder is installed.

Worst still, is the inability to switch tail lights independently from the front marker and headlights, even when the model comes DCC fitted !

Other bloopers include Hornby wiring up their lights with the reverse polarity to everybody else, ViTrains illuminating bodywork (a la 70's toy train style) and trains that have head and tail lights on at both ends at the same time.

 

OK it's a bit of a rant :icon_redface: , but I think it's a pretty poor show from manufacturers who are placing more and more emphasis on the accuracy of their models, to mess up so badly in this one area.

 

p.s. As Martin (Marty Mc) says, you can turn the brightness down by various means.

 

.

[Rumblestripe]

A simple solution to "too bright" LEDs is to tint them with translucent paint.  Most model paint yellows are far from opaque so it should be easy enough to get it how you want it by trial and error. I would use an acrylic as it's easy to remove if you don't like the effect or overdo it.

[Guest Phil]

IMHO working lights are definitely not a gimmick, but the implementation is far from satisfactory. All of the RTR manufacturers are failing in this regard.

 

Apart from the over-brightness issue, there are models which have an incomplete set of lights, some that use shared bulbs/LED's to illuminate lights that should be able to work independently and models with lights that don't work properly when a DCC decoder is installed.

Worst still, is the inability to switch tail lights independently from the front marker and headlights, even when the model comes DCC fitted !

Other bloopers include Hornby wiring up their lights with the reverse polarity to everybody else, ViTrains illuminating bodywork (a la 70's toy train style) and trains that have head and tail lights on at both ends at the same time.

 

OK it's a bit of a rant :icon_redface: , but I think it's a pretty poor show from manufacturers who are placing more and more emphasis on the accuracy of their models, to mess up so badly in this one area.

 

p.s. As Martin (Marty Mc) says, you can turn the brightness down by various means.

 

.

 

 

Thanks Da Do Ron Ron

What is the point of digital control if you have to pick your loco up of the track, turn it upside down and flick a switch ?

 

I was waiting for someone to mention that beaut !!!

 

 

I was initially being a little suggestive in my post because, No, any model of a post 2000 prototype really is lifted by nice shiny LEDs, and i am sure the new class 70 and 350 will be enhanced by prototypical lighting. Cab lighting on the Hornby class 60 is superb, as as the class 37s from Bachmann.

 

I will eventually get round to toning down and turning down the lighting to try and reproduce the "tungsten yellow" of yore, but I really need help understanding why we need taillight switches underneath the fuel tanks. Can the standard factory fitted decoder not cope with that function ?

 

 

 

Thanks for the comments

[Ron Ron Ron]

....What is the point of digital control if you have to pick your loco up of the track, turn it upside down and flick a switch ?

 

......I really need help understanding why we need taillight switches underneath the fuel tanks. Can the standard factory fitted decoder not cope with that function ?

In slight defence of the manufacturers, they've come late to the DCC party and I don't believe they've fully come to terms with it.

Apart from the sound fitted models, up to now Hornby and Bachmann have foisted cheap budget decoders on their DCC Fitted models. It really doesn't do any justice to the models, the capabilities of DCC or themselves in doing so.

There's no reason why a decoder with enough functions to provide fully functioning lights can't be fitted, if only the will was there.

 

 

.

[andyman7]

In slight defence of the manufacturers, they've come late to the DCC party and I don't believe they've fully come to terms with it.

Apart from the sound fitted models, up to now Hornby and Bachmann have foisted cheap budget decoders on their DCC Fitted models. It really doesn't do any justice to the models, the capabilities of DCC or themselves in doing so.

There's no reason why a decoder with enough functions to provide fully functioning lights can't be fitted, if only the will was there.

 

 

.

At least with DCC you can just simply turn the lights off on your 60s/70s diesels!

[Michael Delamar]

Heljan O gauge diesels are extremley bright, and have a bluey tingy which looks very unrealsitic