noise-reducing underlay

[etmsreec]

Hiya,

 

I'm starting my first "proper" layout, using 12mm MDF tops on 2x1 PAR timber. Having run just on the MDF for a few days to try different track plans, I've realized that the noise off things running is amplified quite well by the MDF. So, I'm looking at trying to reduce noise and sound transmission with the underlay or the support structure for the boards.

 

Some people seem to swear by using foam (as sold by Hornby and Peco) whereas others swear by using cork floor tiles. I figure if I'm using foam then I'll need to paint the boards whereas if I use cork over the whole area I won't. Talking to the guy in my local modelshop on Saturday he seemed to recommend using cork over the boards and then another layer of cork under the track.

 

Any ideas or recommendations?

 

Ta.

[grahame]

I'm starting my first "proper" layout, using 12mm MDF tops on 2x1 PAR timber. Having run just on the MDF for a few days to try different track plans, I've realized that the noise off things running is amplified quite well by the MDF. So, I'm looking at trying to reduce noise and sound transmission with the underlay or the support structure for the boards.

 

Some people seem to swear by using foam (as sold by Hornby and Peco) whereas others swear by using cork floor tiles. I figure if I'm using foam then I'll need to paint the boards whereas if I use cork over the whole area I won't. Talking to the guy in my local modelshop on Saturday he seemed to recommend using cork over the boards and then another layer of cork under the track.

 

Any ideas or recommendations?

 

 

A few points to consider;

 

1) If you hope to use an underlay to reduce noise it's effectiveness will be significantly reduced if you traditionally ballast over the top. You'll need to use a soft flexible (laytex/rubber) type glue for the ballast and a sound absorbant track bed.

 

2) However, track beds often unrealistically raise the track which can mean the need to raise other lineside equipment such as platforms, bridges, etc.

 

3) A foam track bed (like the Peco foan ballast) will age, deteriorate and crumble alarmingly quickly.

 

4) You'll never get rid of all running noise. Much is the whooshing of trains and the ringing sound of metal wheels on metal rails. And then there's the clicty clack noise that many like and actually try to accentuate.

 

5) Also much unwanted noise is caused by the drumming amplification effect of the baseboard itself. You'll need to stiffen that as much as possible, probably with additional cross bracing.

 

HTH.

 

G.

[etmsreec]

A few points to consider;

 

1) If you hope to use an underlay to reduce noise it's effectiveness will be significantly reduced if you traditionally ballast over the top. You'll need to use a soft flexible (laytex/rubber) type glue for the ballast and a sound absorbant track bed.

 

2) However, track beds often unrealistically raise the track which can mean the need to raise other lineside equipment such as platforms, bridges, etc.

 

3) A foam track bed (like the Peco foan ballast) will age, deteriorate and crumble alarmingly quickly.

 

4) You'll never get rid of all running noise. Much is the whooshing of trains and the ringing sound of metal wheels on metal rails. And then there's the clicty clack noise that many like and actually try to accentuate.

 

5) Also much unwanted noise is caused by the drumming amplification effect of the baseboard itself. You'll need to stiffen that as much as possible, probably with additional cross bracing.

 

HTH.

 

G.

 

Thanks Grahame. That all makes sense.

 

Steve

[noiseboy72]

Mastic panels sold for car door deadening can be attached to the bottom of the baseboard to reduce resonance. You will still get the wooshing of the wheels on the rails, but not the wooden rumble.

 

It always surprises me how many people ignore this simple idea and try to add more material on the top of the board when resonance can be cancelled from either side !

[gresley]

Hiya,

 

I'm starting my first "proper" layout, using 12mm MDF tops on 2x1 PAR timber. Having run just on the MDF for a few days to try different track plans, I've realized that the noise off things running is amplified quite well by the MDF. So, I'm looking at trying to reduce noise and sound transmission with the underlay or the support structure for the boards.

 

Some people seem to swear by using foam (as sold by Hornby and Peco) whereas others swear by using cork floor tiles. I figure if I'm using foam then I'll need to paint the boards whereas if I use cork over the whole area I won't. Talking to the guy in my local modelshop on Saturday he seemed to recommend using cork over the boards and then another layer of cork under the track.

 

Any ideas or recommendations?

 

Ta.

 

 

Having been in this "game" for a number of years, and living in Europe, where there is a vast amount of experience to tap into, I have found that one of the best solutions to the sound problem is the use of "Kauchuk". This is a form of foam rubber, but unlike the Peco or other makes of underlay, it is more compact and does not disintegrate within a few years. The whole secret is that two layers are used, the bottom one being a full coverage of the baseboard, followed by the second which is only laid under the tracks. These layers are joined by a flexible type of glue. If one uses screws, pins or nails, the whole effect is lost by the transmission of the sound through the inflexible fixings. Likewise, a glue which dries hard will also transmit the sound, thus reducing the sound deadening effect.

Whilst this is not the cheapest of solutions, it seems to be one of the best I have seen (heard). Kauchuk sheets are available in various thicknesses. I have found that a 3mm sheet plus strips of a 3mm sheet give an excellent roadbed with good sound insulation on which to then lay track. Again, the track must NOT be fixed with screws or pins which will translit sound, but should be fixed with a flexible glue. One of the benefits of the Kauchuk is that the surface will tend to "hold" the track, thus the glue alone is not holding the track formation.

Of course, any fitments such as point motors, and associated accessories, will also have to be mounted on a kauchuk base, and not directly to the baseboard.

 

gresley

[Jol Wilkinson]

Closed cell foam, such as suppied by C&L, is very long lasting (20 years plus).

 

Stick down with a latex based adhesive (Copydex, Styccobond F3, or similar). Use the same or Bostick to fix the track. The water soluble latex glues can also be thinned and then used like PVA to fix ballast, but have the advantage of remaining flexible.

[Steve Williams]

Mastic panels sold for car door deadening can be attached to the bottom of the baseboard to reduce resonance. You will still get the wooshing of the wheels on the rails, but not the wooden rumble.

 

It always surprises me how many people ignore this simple idea and try to add more material on the top of the board when resonance can be cancelled from either side !

 

hat's interesting. I have always wondered whether the problem could be tackled from underneath by using foam or such like. Presumably it gets rid of the sound box effect?

 

Steve

[RFS]

Depron foam underlay is another option - freely available on Ebay and from some carpet shops. I'm planning my next layout to use 3mm Depron over the whole board, and then a 3mm trackbed on top to give a proper ballast shoulder. 3mm Depron costs about £2-3 per sq metre depending on the amount you buy.

 

For example - Depron on Ebay