Radius 1 - Is it dieing out?

[trainfan]

Evening all,

 

As I was looking though the Hornby and Bachmann Cataloges, it would seem that fewer and fewer engines are coming out saying that they will run around 1st radius curves straight away. This for me is worrying as my layout practically is 1st radius on the main running line. I know that a number of newer models will run around 1st radius(eg the Hornby T9/M7 or the Bachmann 45xx Tank engine) but it seems that the main manufacturs are effectively abandoning it. So, is Radius 1 dieing out? I for one hope not however what do other people think about it?

 

Jon

 

 

[Kenton]

Other than fiddle yards, some dockside layouts and tramways they really have no place on a layout IMO - even then being limited to an 040 or 060 seems reasonable. Dreaming of running a Pacific or Decapod through a Radius 1 is for Toytown.

[bertiedog]

Replying to Radius 1 - Is it dieing out?......hopefully........as well as too much reliance on set track generally, it has it's place, but in the past has been used as the excuse for strange design restrictions by Tri-ang etc, which have taken 40 years to get them corrected.

 

Tri-ang's designs were once limited by the angle of the approach track to the gradients set, and the radius of the centre height of the top of the cross over on top of the gradient, it governed the front bogie of the Lord of the Isles, led to the middle wheels of six coupled locos not touching the track, and numerous other design oddities like no middle wheels on six wheel diesel bogies.

 

What stuck in peoples thoughts was the fact continental makers got around these problems that Mr Lines could not solve, he, of course, went bust.........

 

The tight curves can exist, you can use them, but if it is a model try not to. This is not to denigrate the toy aspects of our hobby, in the UK toy use is looked down on, to the public's and trade great loss.

 

Stephen.

[OFFTHE RAILS]

I posted this on RMWEB on March 8th :

 

I have found that many Hornby and Bachmann locos will traverse "radius 1" Hornby or Peco track as long as you avoid reverse curves of that radius.

Locos I use with such (hidden) curves are:

Bachmann Ivatt Class 4 2-6-0

Bachmann Standard Class 4MT 2-6-0

Bachmann Crab 2-6-0

Bachmann N 2-6-0

Bachmann 45xx 2-6-2T

Bachmann Standard Class 3MT 2-6-2T

Hornby Railroad 9F 2-10-0

Hornby Bulleid Pacific

Hornby Modified Bulleid Pacific

Hornby King Arthur 4-6-0

Hornby Grange 4-6-0

Hornby T9 4-4-0

Hornby Schools 4-4-0

Hornby M7 0-4-4T

Hornby 4F 0-6-0

Hornby 2P 4-4-0

Hornby Q1 0-6-0

Hornby 14xx 0-4-2T

Hornby 61xx 2-6-2T

The Hornby locos (except 2P and 4F) are all recent models not the old tender driven types.

 

Locos which I found wouldn't run on radius 1 curves were :

Bachmann 22xx 0-6-0

Bachmann BR Std 4MT 4-6-0 (earlier Bachmann split chassis version - The Mainline version was OK)

 

Ian

[Dave777]

Wouldn’t be sad to see the back of it, and 9 inch curves in N gauge too. As we move to an era of greater detail and realism our trackplanning needs to move with that I feel. Handy for hidden curves I guess, but if the leaps forward in model detail require an extra few inches of baseboard width to move from 1^st to 2^nd radius that seems a good trade-off to me.

 

Good excuse for a new layout too Jon

 

 

[jonathan452]

Always good for Thomas and Percy though.

[Horsetan]

Seems strange that, as homes get smaller in terms of room size, the need for tighter radius curves would appear to be lessening as (steam outline) models become ever more accurate.

[Kenton]

Seems strange that, as homes get smaller in terms of room size, the need for tighter radius curves would appear to be lessening as (steam outline) models become ever more accurate.

who needs curves anyway - an end to end plank solves the need for any sharp curves

[plarailfan]

I've lived in a few different houses over the last 30 years, none of them have had much space for a layout, it's always the width, that causes my problems, I want an oval of track with curves that can fit on a baseboard only 12 inches wide.I've tried OO end to end layouts, N and Z gauge roundy-roundy layouts, but only the micro machines toy layout fits in my present, layout space. I've got nice quality N gauge and OO models stored away, but no layout to run them on, if I win the lottery, I would produce N gauge sound trains that would go round very sharp curves, this would compromise scale, but my models would be aimed at space starved modellers, rather than purists 'n' rivet counters!! Modern houses are built as big as rabbit hutches and cost over a hundred grand to boot, so space will become more of an issue and N gauge is going to get VERY popular, as modellers squeeze mainline type layouts into modern housing.I don't find anything wrong with the principle of old Tri-ang class 31 and 37 loco's, the moulded centre wheels on the power bogie was a brilliant idea, of course, it's old and a bit troublesome now, the motors aren't as smooth as modern stuff and the detail looks dated.Loads of modellers with large radius curves, have to reach around two feet to the other side of their layout when they want to work on it, they find their clothing becomes tangled up in trees or telegraph poles and stuff gets damaged.

[Gwiwer]

We all came into this hobby at some time and by some means and I'm willing to bet a fair few of us had an oval of track on a table-top in our youth. That will almost without exception have had first radius curves.

 

If we wish to nurture and encourage future generations to take up the hobby then they too shall need some sort of starter which is both affordable and practical for quick assembly and removal. The next generation of wide-eyed children can stare at amazing models at their local show but cannot make the step change to those levels of modelling without learning along the way.

 

So my argument is that first radius has a place and will likely continue to do so and that place is at the toy end of the market. That this is frowned upon by so many is almost offensive in some ways since that is another disincentive to future modellers. It is no different to the train spotter on the platform end who is shunned by others because he hasn't "copped" all of a certain class and is every bit as demeaning.

 

We should be encouraging future modellers not peering down our noses at what are considered toy trains; that is precisely what many of them are and those toys are precisely the learning tools by which we encourage new modellers to enter the more highly skilled and specialised areas of the hobby.

 

First radius curves also retain a place on even some quite large layouts. Only for pseudo-prototypical sharp turnouts in yards, perhaps, but they are still quite often seen. My own layout, large as it is, has three first-radius crossovers and numerous other first-radius turnouts. For the record I don't have any trouble with any stock or locomotive negotiating those but the clearance to adjacent tracks and scenery has to be watched carefully.

 

Greater accuracy in RtR model production has meant that manufacturers are now designing items which may not negotiate those curves in order to provide us with the levels of accuracy we now demand. There is a price to be paid for such highly detailed models and it is in curve radius as much as anything. But basic models are still widely available which will negotiate first radius curves and Hornby has recently marketed their entry-level "Railroad" range more clearly at the beginner who may have no more than the basic oval of table-top track.