MRE Mag 2010 wish list results

[micklner]

See here for results

 

 

http://www.mremag.com/

[Ian J.]

Is it perhaps telling that it took until now for a thread on the MREmag poll to be started? I know when I read the site last night that I didn't feel anything was 'news' as such, so didn't feel any particular desire to post to a thread. Maybe we are getting a bit fed up with wishing for things, or perhaps with many diesels done, electric locomotives and units starting to get looked at and made, and a number of long wished for models now either out, due soon or announced, that there is less intensity in our wishing?

[Hammer]

I also thought it was a bit strange that it wasn't widely mentioned on here, but then it is probably in keeping with the froth limitation rules

 

Is anything on the Wishlist news? Well, yes.

 

As Pat Hammond notes, the emphasis this year is firmly on LNER and LMS locomotives where as the 2007 and 2008 polls were been dominated by electrics, diesels and Southern steam. I doubt these areas are in decline in any way, but the lack of high polling results from those areas might show that demand has been sated for the time being. As mentioned in the Scottish Loco Poll thread, it's quite significant that so many Scottish-based models have polled so highly.

If a levelling of demand is reflected in sales, then manufacturers are going to want to look at other options to keep the figures buoyant. I think we may already be seeing this with Bachmann's forthcoming Midland engines and possibly the Peppercorn A2 and '60s condition A3 models.

 

With diesels, it is the case that a lot of them have been done or announced. There are a few threads about it kicking about.

 

It could also be (with no offence intended to Mr Hammond) that people are seeing his poll as being less relevant now that model railway forums are receiving increasing attention from magazines and manufacturers. Why use the medium of a poll when you can express your opinion directly on here?

[Revolution Ben]

Hi folks,

 

140 votes from N-Gaugers looks pathetic, but I can understand the low turnout.

 

Two or three years ago I used to look at MREmag maybe a couple of times a week - but until recently I hadn't bothered looking for months. Indeed, I hadn't realised the poll was on until someone posted a link on another forum. I went and had a look but the form-filling methodology was so arcane and tedious I gave up.

 

It seems to me that as far as N is concerned trying to extrapolate anything from such a small sample size is a pretty pointless exercise. And as has been mentioned previously, I suspect manufacturers are becoming increasingly focussed on suggestions or comments on forums such as this.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Guest Max Stafford]

(Ian J.)

"Maybe we are getting a bit fed up with wishing for things, or perhaps with many diesels done, electric locomotives and units starting to get looked at and made, and a number of long wished for models now either out, due soon or announced, that there is less intensity in our wishing?"

 

Probably for modellers of the D&E, Southern and later LM scene Ian. Others among us are still wishing for a piece of the action.

 

Dave.

[The Black Hat]

Im just wondering if its wise to have a wish list from those on this forum and compare the results. While its all well and good having such a wishlist from one online source, I think more would be better. Only problem is that it becomes Polls of polls and you then can find at least one poll where the model you want comes first.

 

I conducted a poll of one person, a K1, J21, Q6, G5 and a J72 were the top 5....

[bmthtrains - David]

I saw the poll was up but didn't bother voting as to be honest, there were far too many boxes to click on, and the tiny number of votes in the N gauge category last year meant the results are fairly useless (yes, I realise the irony of what I have just said!)

 

MREmag is a bit odd though, I'm not sure what it actually is - just seems to be occasional bits of news and then some emails from readers? It seems to have 'clout' though in the industry. Am I missing something fundamental?

 

David

[Mod2]

Im just wondering if its wise to have a wish list from those on this forum and compare the results.

 

No, thank you

[The Black Hat]

I agree that this wish list seems to have some clout when compared with the other ones taken. I think its a shame that even a simple wishlist here isnt done as I certainly think this site has a more balanced group across those that use it.

 

What strikes me is the different engines and items selected as they seem to be quite varied this year. Despite the eastern region flavour theres a real variety in the types of locomotives requested and how they would fit into the fleets of modellers containing those already made, and those that they could buy, enhanced by this model filling a hole in some fleet somewhere.

 

It could also be interesting to see how models are chosen. Given that a Blue Pullman is requested yet apparently not being considered by manufacturers, which engines suggested do they select and how do they arrive at a decision. It would be an enlightening insight to find how such decisions are made.

[phil gollin]

As the few replies seem to indicate, people are "still waiting" to complete what has been announced, so a poll for the future seems less important this year.

 

I'm a 1960s "Southern Region" fan, and not only am I looking forward to the 2-EPB, but am awaiting the full set of "late-crest" Schools and T-19s (not even in this year's catalogue). It is likely that it will be two or three years before all the 1960s options for these three models are complete - AFTER THAT I can think of 4-CORs and other lovelies.

 

.

[reevesthecat]

I did view the results and the comment about lack of D&E requests but do wonder without any disrespect to anyone who reads mre mag if this just reflects the age and interests of the readership. If they are mainly people with steam interests they will vote accordingly.

Also 900+ votes is not a large sample -were we up to 9000 members on here at one point -so the potential voters with internet access are out there so where were the voters?

cheers

mark

[Jol Wilkinson]

Im just wondering if its wise to have a wish list from those on this forum and compare the results. While its all well and good having such a wishlist from one online source, I think more would be better. Only problem is that it becomes Polls of polls and you then can find at least one poll where the model you want comes first.

 

I conducted a poll of one person, a K1, J21, Q6, G5 and a J72 were the top 5....

 

David,

 

ask him why he hasn't taken up kit building. Then he could have most (if not all) of the top 5 models in his wish list.

 

Jol

[Mod2]

I think its a shame that even a simple wishlist here isnt done as I certainly think this site has a more balanced group across those that use it.

 

...

 

It could also be interesting to see how models are chosen. Given that a Blue Pullman is requested yet apparently not being considered by manufacturers, which engines suggested do they select and how do they arrive at a decision. It would be an enlightening insight to find how such decisions are made.

 

David

 

If you wish to start gaining insight, might I suggest Andy's post here and some of those that follow it. Admittedly this relates to a more specialised market but hopefully you'll see why we believe that 'simple wishlists' are very limited in their effect, without sound reasoning behind them and/or someone to collate and interpret the information.

 

Thanks.

[The Stationmaster]

Wish lists are, I suppose, rather like elections in that by definition only those who want something are likely to indulge, and they are likely to be very parochial in their choice (rather obviously of course ). Once your wishes are being met then you are less likely to vote - simples.

 

I voted in this one but don't know if my vote counted as something has now appeared in MREMag about needing to have Javascript enabled in order for your vote to count - seems rather late in the day to say that. And equally while Pat Hammond - courteous and helpful as ever - passed on my list of suggested alterations to the list (of GWR locos) no change was made so individual classes appeared several different times, again! Now whether the latter resulted in vote splitting or the results were aggregated I don't know but it strikes me as downright daft to include a single class of locos several times over on the basis of running number groups alone. ADDENDUM - I see - thanks to the link posted by Hammer - that the results have not been aggregated, which definitely impacts the overall totals, some poll!!

 

As for Mod 2's first comment further up this thread - thank goodness .

[jonathan452]

I did view the results and the comment about lack of D&E requests but do wonder without any disrespect to anyone who reads mre mag if this just reflects the age and interests of the readership. If they are mainly people with steam interests they will vote accordingly.

Also 900+ votes is not a large sample -were we up to 9000 members on here at one point -so the potential voters with internet access are out there so where were the voters?

cheers

mark

 

I second the above.

[asmay2002]

I did view the results and the comment about lack of D&E requests but do wonder without any disrespect to anyone who reads mre mag if this just reflects the age and interests of the readership.

 

Or maybe that most successful D+E have been done several times and we are already into marginal locos some of which were desperately awful in real life.

 

ASM

[jonathan452]

Or maybe that most successful D+E have been done several times and we are already into marginal locos some of which were desperately awful in real life.

 

ASM

 

That is a fair point when it comes to the locomotive side of things. However there is still the issue of diesel and electric unts, accesories, and to a lesser extent contemporary coaching stock and freight wagons.

 

It could also be argued that (with a few notable exceptions such as the Duke of Gloucester) the most significant steam locomtives built since say 1923 have already been modelled. Of course with a more diverse and larger number of potential prototypes to chose from there may be more potential to fill in the missing gaps. However this weighs against the dwindling number of people who may actually remember them.

[Mark Dickerson]

I didn't vote in the end, mainly as they've removed the categories for LT and industrials (although I notice both appeared in mainline guises). I'm surprised they didn't just stick a couple of options under "other". That 2 people nonetheless apparently requested industrials via the feedback option is seen as "vindicating" removal of that category.

 

Whether or not it does, I'm very glad of those other sources of market research out there and the Sentinel Dapol/Model Rail are risking (a whopping 2 votes in both 2009 and 2010).

[Pennine MC]

Or maybe that most successful D+E have been done several times and we are already into marginal locos some of which were desperately awful in real life.

 

Not the first time I've heard this notion, but why would success (or otherwise) have anything to do with it? If you're modelling (say) East Anglia in the 60s, then you're likely to need a class 15 as part of the scene.

[Guest dilbert]

I didn't vote in the end, mainly as they've removed the categories for LT and industrials (although I notice both appeared in mainline guises). I'm surprised they didn't just stick a couple of options under "other". That 2 people nonetheless apparently requested industrials via the feedback option is seen as "vindicating" removal of that category.

 

Whether or not it does, I'm very glad of those other sources of market research out there and the Sentinel Dapol/Model Rail are risking (a whopping 2 votes in both 2009 and 2010).

 

I didn't vote either and for multiple reasons - one of these being the way some of the categories are defined and managed.

 

I wonder how many people didn't vote and what the top three reasons are ? ...dilbert

['CHARD]

Not the first time I've heard this notion, but why would success (or otherwise) have anything to do with it? If you're modelling (say) East Anglia in the 60s, then you're likely to need a class 15 as part of the scene.

Another example. With 117 locos of Class 17, and substantial parts of the country graced/ plagued* by them for a generation (of enthusiasts), some of these marginal classes are in fact anything but. They actually become signature traction.

 

If we were all modelling grey porridge and standardisation then a diet of 31, 37, 47 and 56 is all well and good, but let's not forget the demographics of modellers' purchases; namely we don't buy proportionately to the real thing. If we did, wagons bought would outweigh locos 100:1, and 47s would outweigh practically every other loco added together. But modelling's not like that. Yes, some will model the routine, mundane even, but how many more model the quirky, imagined, rich in variety and implausible mixes that 'it's my layout' logic/ freedom empowers them to...

 

* delete to taste

[Bloodnok]

I do wonder about some of the voters too who wish for an item that is already on general release, reviewed in magazines and been on general sale in all good shops for a period of time and indicating they will buy a substantial quantity.

 

This could mean several different things. An example would be that the manufacturer has made a different version (e.g. pre or post refurb) and the voter wanted the other type. It is easy as a voter to assume that your comments go with your vote - I discovered after submit that they went in separate directions.

 

The over-complication of the poll to categorise, segment and marginalise virtually everything becomes self-defeating with people walking away from it and a loss of relevance.

 

And the inconsistency over what is subdivided into tiny divisions and what is lumped together - that doesn't help...

 

Now, who fancies a poll about better track?

 

The pointless subdivision in that one was legendary. I remember looking at that and thinking "But I just want some track, of a British design (any British design - doesn't matter what precisely) in 4mm/ft rather than 3.5mm/ft, over which current RTR will run."

[Ravenser]

This could mean several different things. An example would be that the manufacturer has made a different version (e.g. pre or post refurb) and the voter wanted the other type. It is easy as a voter to assume that your comments go with your vote - I discovered after submit that they went in separate directions.

 

 

 

And the inconsistency over what is subdivided into tiny divisions and what is lumped together - that doesn't help...

 

 

 

The pointless subdivision in that one was legendary. I remember looking at that and thinking "But I just want some track, of a British design (any British design - doesn't matter what precisely) in 4mm/ft rather than 3.5mm/ft, over which current RTR will run."

 

 

I admit to a suspicion that fragmentation into small subdivisions is a possible way of breaking up the vote when things have been strongly canvassed for elsewhere. But the support for D11s seems to be coming through loud and clear

[Andy C]

I didnt vote in this as like Andy Y, I find anything which involves the Plowmans, the self appointed experts to the model railway world (in this case breaking the word expert into its two syllables ex - a has been, and spurt - a drip under pressure gives an accurate description) a vehicle for their own ego trip. It was far too complicated, seemed very skewed and didnt fill me with any confidence re the end verdict. As a result I really think the findings are statistically invalid - the manufacturers aren't stupid and i suspect their personal verdicts would be "interesting, but....."

 

 

 

[Guest dilbert]

Unless something has changed, isn't Pat Hammond still the owner of MREmag ? A site he has been running for a good ten years or so now and which, over time, has also undergone change from the daily updates to a thrice weekly publication.

 

In the meantime, the way the annual poll has been undertaken has moved from a very manual "send me an email with your top ten faves" (the collation of such info must have been a real headache) to the current online poll format (which I also find skewed and unrepresentative from several angles).

 

To mine eyes, the poll format has gone from a "managed" to a "manipulated" structure, especially when decisions of what is in and what is out are 'vindicated', after supposed (non?) feedback. This is one reason for not voting - how many others share the same viewpoint ? Well I don't know, but I suspect that the number of 'abstentions' relative to those who did actually vote is not at the lower end of the scale.

 

The hobby doesn't need a 'Guardian Protector' (GP). It needs objective input that is seen to be at least acknowledged and I haven't seen this (may be I need occular testing).

 

I still regularly visit MREmag - not so much for modelling info but more related to the prototype nuggets that regularly pop up (even if this is perceived to be obscure).

 

..dilbert