Llanforen, GWR in South Wales

[88C]

The toplight is now complete.

 

It is the first time that I have used this type of corridor connectors, I found these in the lucky dip box of coach parts, they are from A1 Models. They are easy enough to assemble and the only slight problem, if it really is, is that if they are next to a coach with normal RTR type connections there is a bit of fouling and can cause a derailment, this would not be a problem if the adjacent coach has end boards.

 

Will have to start thinking about the next project.

 

Brian

[88C]

Well after the toplight what to do next? Looking through the stock I rescued from ChrisF’s house I found 1 and half Comet C66/75 coach kits, so many of the kit parts were not kept together. Anyway I inspired by @Neal Ball’s blog I decided to make a start, one pair of bogies assembled and  then I looked at an underframe. The C66 coaches are short and the recommended underframe doesn’t make any allowance for this. There is a shorter frame, but still not for 55ft. I will contact Wizard next week, I need to order some bits anyway, and see what Andrew suggests. I’m sure I will be able to solve the problem but it’s more work than I was expecting. Anyone out there with suggestions please feel free to chip in.

Brian

 

[Neal Ball]

38 minutes ago, 88C said:

Well after the toplight what to do next? Looking through the stock I rescued from ChrisF’s house I found 1 and half Comet C66/75 coach kits, so many of the kit parts were not kept together. Anyway I inspired by @Neal Ball’s blog I decided to make a start, one pair of bogies assembled and  then I looked at an underframe. The C66 coaches are short and the recommended underframe doesn’t make any allowance for this. There is a shorter frame, but still not for 55ft. I will contact Wizard next week, I need to order some bits anyway, and see what Andrew suggests. I’m sure I will be able to solve the problem but it’s more work than I was expecting. Anyone out there with suggestions please feel free to chip in.

Brian

 

Good luck Brian.

 

55ft does sound short and it’s possible there won’t be anything “off the shelf” at Wizard / Comet. In the first instance speak to Andrew, see what he suggests.

 

I see the kit is still in the range - you need underframe reference UW3: https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/w18.pdf

 

Have fun with the build.

[88C]

Thanks Neal, the UW3 are the ones I have, there is a shorter version but still not as short as 55ft. I think some careful modifications will be necessary.

 

Brian

[Penrhos1920]

Here’s my C66.  Sorry I can’t tell you much about it as I bought it built.  The chassis looks like it’s a standard Comet product.  The solebars might have a joint in the middle.

[Neal Ball]

7 hours ago, Penrhos1920 said:

Here’s my C66.  Sorry I can’t tell you much about it as I bought it built.  The chassis looks like it’s a standard Comet product.  The solebars might have a joint in the middle.

Yes very much a standard Comet kit. The bogies are also Comet.

 

Nice looking carriage.

[88C]

Thanks for the replies.

 

 I have a chance to study the problem a bit more carefully and, hopefully, I know how to proceed. First of all, looking at the Wizard website again I find that the UW3 underframe is the shortest available so I will have to go with what I have. Helpfully the instructions state 39’ 9” bogie centres so a new hole will be needed, initial calculations say that means 3.5mm in from the inner most etched ones. I will double check before committing myself!
 

In other progress, I have drilled the holes for door handles and if I get chance tomorrow I will solder up the sides and ends which should let me work out how much to shorten the chassis.

 

That’s it for now.

 

Brian

[Neal Ball]

11 hours ago, 88C said:

Thanks for the replies.

 

 I have a chance to study the problem a bit more carefully and, hopefully, I know how to proceed. First of all, looking at the Wizard website again I find that the UW3 underframe is the shortest available so I will have to go with what I have. Helpfully the instructions state 39’ 9” bogie centres so a new hole will be needed, initial calculations say that means 3.5mm in from the inner most etched ones. I will double check before committing myself!
 

In other progress, I have drilled the holes for door handles and if I get chance tomorrow I will solder up the sides and ends which should let me work out how much to shorten the chassis.

 

That’s it for now.

 

Brian

 

Morning Brian,

 

Do you have anything to cross reference with? Photos? other plans?

 

I am surprised that for the C66 someone cut the underframe in the middle.... they should be evenly cut at either end. Indeed I have just checked that in the instructions and I read there are cut lines on the underframe. Apologies if you know this already.

 

Good luck with the build.

[88C]

Thanks @Neal Ball, I have no intention of cutting the underframe in the middle. When I have put the body together I will be able to see if the cut lines are suitable but I suspect they will be too long. The instructions do say that it is for 57’ and 60’ coaches, not 55’

 

 I don’t have any reference material, there is nothing in Russell’s book, I don’t have the appendix books, so basically I’m just working with what I have. The main purpose of building these coaches is to replace the old Airfix B set which is running on the layout and just to enjoy the modelling. To be honest if I hadn’t acquired them I probably wouldn’t bother. Although RTR stuff has it’s place it is very satisfying to run models that you have built yourself.
 

Thanks for your interest, it is what makes RMWeb so good.

 

Brian

[Neal Ball]

36 minutes ago, 88C said:

Thanks @Neal Ball, I have no intention of cutting the underframe in the middle. When I have put the body together I will be able to see if the cut lines are suitable but I suspect they will be too long. The instructions do say that it is for 57’ and 60’ coaches, not 55’

 

 I don’t have any reference material, there is nothing in Russell’s book, I don’t have the appendix books, so basically I’m just working with what I have. The main purpose of building these coaches is to replace the old Airfix B set which is running on the layout and just to enjoy the modelling. To be honest if I hadn’t acquired them I probably wouldn’t bother. Although RTR stuff has it’s place it is very satisfying to run models that you have built yourself.
 

Thanks for your interest, it is what makes RMWeb so good.

 

Brian

I will have a look in the appendix for you.

 

I agree about the benefit of being a member on here - very satisfying- I might not know the answer, but I know where to go for it in the forum. Last week I posed a question on my thread and immediately received two helpful answers.

 

I will dig out my book, see if it’s included.

[88C]

An update on the toplight. Well, it has found a new home in Switzerland. As you know, I have recently spent some time working on models, some started, which I rescued from my late cousin's house in Bedford. Chris Foren was a member of the 'Brains Trust' and one of the other members saw my posts and contacted me to say that Chris was supposed to be building the coach for Flavio, @iL Dottore, and would I be prepared to finish it for him, to which I agreed. I was unable to attend the latest meeting myself but the coach was delivered to Flavio at the meeting much to his surprise. He did mention this on Early Risers.

 

Not a lot of modelling done recently, my wife has been in hospital and is now recovering so I can now get back to the C66 coaches, the missing parts have been ordered and have arrived from Wizard. I will report soon on the solution to the chassis problem.

 

Brian

[iL Dottore]

Brian,

 

I was utterly surprised when @bbishop passed the model on to me. It is utterly exquisite. If I could finish a coach as half as well as you can, I'd be a very happy camper indeed. The label underneath the coach on the floor pan ("in memory of ChrisF") was particularly poignant. Thank you so much for finishing it, I will treasure it

 

Chris and I had a number of "almost but not yet quite gotten off the ground" projects we had talked about a number of times whenever he was on one of his regular Christmas jaunts to Switzerland. Alas, they will never be.

 

Again, thank you.

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by iL Dottore
Typo

[88C]

A long time since I posted for various reasons which I don't need to bore you with but it has meant that modelling time has been in short supply.

 

Back to the C66. First of all the underframe. The information in the instructions says the bogie centres are 39'9" ,159mm in 4mm. The inner most marked centres are 41'6", 166mm which means new holes have to be drilled 3.5mm in from these. The underframe is also too long and there is no cutting guide so using the coach body as a guide I worked out that I needed to cut 12mm off each end. Needless to say, all of this is best done before folding any part of the etch.

 

A while back @Graham T was asking about fixing couplings to bogies and I suggested the MJT etches. It takes a bit of working out the best way to fit them to Comet bogies but I just used 6 layers of scrap etch soldered to the underside to get the correct height. Part of the Comet etch does include a part for screw on Bachmann type couplers but I wanted the versatility of a NEM pocket. My method was a bit tedious but I couldn't think of a better way. MJT bogies are a lot easier in this respect.

 

Latest step has been to cut the roofs to length and then to mark out and drill for the vents.

 

Hopefully I will be able to make steady progress, however I have never been a quick modeller.

 

Brian

[The Johnster]

I made the bogie centre mistake with mine (which does dual duty as a C66 and an A44); 'inner holes, Johnster, obviously, it's only 55', didn't check, shoulda coulda oughta didna.  You are right, it is much easier to drill the holes at the proper stage of the construction, but the instructions are not idiot, or Johnster-proof at this point.  Also, I don't like Comet kit bogies, and (what heresy it this?) find them too wide when assembled (you should not be able to see the tops of the axleboxes or the footsteps on both sides if you are looking vertically downwards from above the coaches). so I used Mainline RTR because there were some in the scrap box, with Bachmann wheels.  I had to drill a larger hole for the Mainline pivots and had some bother getting the coach to run level, sorted in the end with washers, trial, and (a lot of) error! 

 

In fact I'm not a fan of cosmetic whitemetal bogie facings in general; they need a lot of fettling to get rid of flashing and mould ribs, and look 'blobby' to my view...  A bit '20th century'; we can do better deze daze, even me!

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by The Johnster

[88C]

Steady progress on the two C66 coaches. The sides and ends are assembled and I am now working on the interiors before I start on the underframes, this gives a firmer base to work on. Like the toplight I am using a false floor. 

 

Holes have been made to clear the bogie bolts and I have put a pin at one end to help with getting the correct location.

 

It's slow work building coaches.

 

Brian.

[MrWolf]

That's a whole lot more practical when it comes to assembly and painting of the interior, well worth the extra work involved.

[The Johnster]

Yes, I did the false floor and holes for bogie pivot bolts as well. 

[Neal Ball]

On 06/12/2023 at 21:09, 88C said:

A long time since I posted for various reasons which I don't need to bore you with but it has meant that modelling time has been in short supply.

 

Back to the C66. First of all the underframe. The information in the instructions says the bogie centres are 39'9" ,159mm in 4mm. The inner most marked centres are 41'6", 166mm which means new holes have to be drilled 3.5mm in from these. The underframe is also too long and there is no cutting guide so using the coach body as a guide I worked out that I needed to cut 12mm off each end. Needless to say, all of this is best done before folding any part of the etch.

 

A while back @Graham T was asking about fixing couplings to bogies and I suggested the MJT etches. It takes a bit of working out the best way to fit them to Comet bogies but I just used 6 layers of scrap etch soldered to the underside to get the correct height. Part of the Comet etch does include a part for screw on Bachmann type couplers but I wanted the versatility of a NEM pocket. My method was a bit tedious but I couldn't think of a better way. MJT bogies are a lot easier in this respect.

 

Latest step has been to cut the roofs to length and then to mark out and drill for the vents.

 

Hopefully I will be able to make steady progress, however I have never been a quick modeller.

 

Brian

Morning Brian, I’m just catching up with your progress and I must say it’s all looking very good.

 

I have recently tried MJT bogies for the first time and was also swayed by the NEM pocket device. Instead of packing the coupler pocket to get the right height, I simply turned it upside down! Then it’s the right height for my Kadee couplers.

 

It certainly was a lot easier than drilling through the metal on the comet bogie to get the Kadee gearbox into place, then being unhappy that it the gap between the carriages 2mm too wide! Next step will be to see if I can retrofit to some existing bogies.

 

14 hours ago, 88C said:

Steady progress on the two C66 coaches. The sides and ends are assembled and I am now working on the interiors before I start on the underframes, this gives a firmer base to work on. Like the toplight I am using a false floor. 

 

Holes have been made to clear the bogie bolts and I have put a pin at one end to help with getting the correct location.

 

It's slow work building coaches.

 

Brian.

That is very neat and tidy Brian well done.

 

Oh yes! It’s a slow process making carriages.

 

12 hours ago, MrWolf said:

That's a whole lot more practical when it comes to assembly and painting of the interior, well worth the extra work involved.

It is, but I still spray them in situ….. as a separate interior, they are not easy to keep hold of! 

[88C]

May I take this opportunity to say Happy Christmas to everyone. I would like to thank once again the members of RMweb who have been so supportive of me in dealing with Chris Foren's passing and now dealing with his estate, it is about twenty weeks since the form applying for probate/letters of administration and we are still waiting.

 

On a brighter note it has been a a pretty good year for modelling, several projects completed and the arrival so some very impressive motive power. Next year will see the arrival of a steam railmotor so something to look forward to. I have the C66 coaches to complete, no particular rush because it is not going to be warm enough for some time to get out into the garage to spray them. In fact, for a change I built another wagon kit earlier this week. I have far more than I need but it's fun building them, although they are useful when a club layout is on show.

 

Enjoy the festivities and happy modelling.

 

Best wishes,

 

Brian

[88C]

Not a lot done over the festive season but I have made a start today.

 

The C66 coaches needed full length footboards but the recommended method in the instructions made them look too wide in my opinion so I searched through the stash of brass strips and came up with some suitable L shaped pieces. I drilled some 0.45 holes at the bottom of the solebars and soldered lengths of wire into the holes, these wires support the footboards. Before they can be fitted the boards needed to be marked for the position of the supports and a notch filed to clear the wire.

 

 

One thing I didn't notice at the time was that one of the L pieces was slightly deeper than the others so one coach has one footboard higher than the other. Not to worry, you can only see one side at a time. 

 

Next jobs to do will be fitting the buffers, detailing and fixing the roofs, then I think it will be put to one side until it is suitable weather for painting.

 

After that I will probably do more on the 2021, it's been a long time since I built a whitemetal kit and I am afraid to admit that I don't seem to be doing it very well, hopefully it won't look too bad when it's done. 

 

Finally can I wish you all the best for 2024.

 

Brian

[88C]

Well, I think that's all I can do on the C66 coaches until it is warm enough to start painting, so a few pictures to show where I've got to.

 

All the separate parts ready for assembly.

A brief test, an excuse to try different coupling options. First T/L

Then 3link/screw.

A bit of tweaking needed with a couple of bogies, I think that if I get round to building any more coaches I will try to use RTR bogies. Ideally they need a proper test, I might take them up to the club one day and see how they perform on a roundy roundy with hand built pointwork.

 

I will need a brake coach to go with these and I was lucky enough to get a Hornby version from the sad demise of Hattons.

 

A bit of tidying up to do before I decide on my next project.

 

Brian

[The Johnster]

2 hours ago, 88C said:

A bit of tweaking needed with a couple of bogies, I think that if I get round to building any more coaches I will try to use RTR bogies.

 

I've come to the same conclusion, Brian; I find the Comet bogies a bit lumpen with their cast whitemetal cosmetic sideframes and a bit flimsy and difficult to keep square and level as just the brass skeleton.  On my E167 B set they are visible if you look vertically down on the model from overhead, which can't be right!   RTR bogies are of a high standard and run well.  If you need fishbellies, Americans, or Deans there are reasonable 3D prints from Stafford Road Works, who sell through Shapeways but I think you can order direct.  These are 'layout models' but run well and are available with NEM pockets printed in. 

[88C]

A rather frustrating couple of sessions trying to fit whitemetal figures into some of my Barry locos. Even models where I have made the cab roof removable I have struggled to get the figures to stay put while the glue sets, I’m sure heavy bodies and small feet don’t help. I will have to try some 3D printed ones. Putting off trying anything with a fixed roof.

 

It is a bit of a dilemma really as most of the time the engines will be seen on shed so no crew really needed, you can’t win.

 

Brian.

[Darwinian]

15 minutes ago, 88C said:

 

 

It is a bit of a dilemma really as most of the time the engines will be seen on shed so no crew really needed, you can’t win.

 

Brian.

 

True, but to me a loco on shed with crew doing something in the cab is more acceptable than a runaway that the crew have abandoned!

 

I have just put some modelu crew into my B4 pecket and without taking the cab apart and although a faff they did seem to stay put fairly well so long as I could hold them long enough for the glue to bite (Thick superglue). It was also much easier for the driver who was leaning on the cabside, so not just dependent on his feet to keep him upright. 

[88C]

I have just sent an order off to Modelu for some more figures, including a pair in HO which I’m hoping will be more suitable for the small E class.

 

A bit more successful this afternoon, the purpose made crew for the Manor went in easily and a couple of the whitemetal ones have gone into the ex M&SWR 2-4-0 without any problems. That loco has been waiting a long time for a crew!
 

Brian