USA Rail Tanks in Britain

[kevinlms]

Hi

 

Life (of USA) are making lots of their photo archives available. Some include railway topics & a small percentage are of non-USA prototypes, like this one here.

 

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/21501aedd0e3dc1b_large

 

It is suggested that they are stockpiled ready for the Normandy invasion, anyone any idea of where? The signal box looks LNWR to me.

 

Interestingly, tank 17079 looks like it is fitted (vacuum presumably), whereas the others seem to have screw couplings only.

 

Kevin Martin

[PhilH]

can't help with your query but thanks for the heads up re the Life archive. Another goldmine.

[Adam]

Note too the Whitcombe diesel in the background.

 

To my eye at least, the 'box(es) (and possibly the signals) look more GWR, but the the picture is sufficiently grainy to make identification more than a bit tricky.

 

If that's a brake pipe on 17079, it would be for air brake rather than vacuum (following US practice).

 

Adam

[br2975]

Gentlemen,

 

This is Newport Ebbw Junction - looking in the 'up' direction toward Newport, the South Wales main line is on the right, behind the last line of tanks, and disappears under the overbridges, then past Gaer Jct (on the left out of sight) and enters Hillfield Tunnel before reaching Newport High St..

.

Alexandra Dock Jct. Yard is just out of shot to the right, extreme right is Waterloo Loop and eventually Monmouthshire (aka Mon Bank) Bank.

.

A large number of USATC locos were stored in and around South Wales prior to Operation Overlord - over 100 S-160 type 2-8-0 locos were stored near Treforest on one line of the double track former Barry Railway line to Trehafod.

.

A book on the subject was written by Eric Mountford, who dodged US troops to record the locos, and the book was published by the Oakwood Press, unfortunately I can't remember the title !

 

Brian R

[Adam]

Thanks Brian, I did wonder if it was 'somewhere in South Wales'. Was the book this comparatively slim volume?

 

Adam

[Bernard Lamb]

The brakes would have been Westinghouse air brakes on these wagons. Capacity was 9,900 US gallons which is around 36 tons. Length over headstocks 12341mm, riveted steel tank, dia 2070mm length of tank 11332mm. Most had gone by the mid 1950s but some were rebuilt with strengthened underframes. These had all gone by 1972. Many tanks continued in service as static tanks long after their rail use had ceased. They got as far as Iran as well as seeing use on most of the european network. I believe that some made it back to the UK. Many of the shorter four wheel wagons were assembled on the Hainault Loop prior to D day. I don't know if the tanks were ever there.

Bernard

[br2975]

Adam

.

That's the book

.

Brian

[Fat Controller]

Gentlemen,

 

This is Newport Ebbw Junction - looking in the 'up' direction toward Newport, the South Wales main line is on the right, behind the last line of tanks, and disappears under the overbridges, then past Gaer Jct (on the left out of sight) and enters Hillfield Tunnel before reaching Newport High St..

.

Alexandra Dock Jct. Yard is just out of shot to the right, extreme right is Waterloo Loop and eventually Monmouthshire (aka Mon Bank) Bank.

.

A large number of USATC locos were stored in and around South Wales prior to Operation Overlord - over 100 S-160 type 2-8-0 locos were stored near Treforest on one line of the double track former Barry Railway line to Trehafod.

.

A book on the subject was written by Eric Mountford, who dodged US troops to record the locos, and the book was published by the Oakwood Press, unfortunately I can't remember the title !

 

Brian R

There was a lot of stock stored at Rogerstone as well, I believe- many of these South Wales yards were under-employed due to the suspension of export coal traffic.

Examples of these tank wagons still exist as internal users at various locations in France. Some of the Whitcomb shunters (albeit re-engined) were also still in use on FS (Italy)until recently.

[Pacific231G]

The brakes would have been Westinghouse air brakes on these wagons. Capacity was 9,900 US gallons which is around 36 tons. Length over headstocks 12341mm, riveted steel tank, dia 2070mm length of tank 11332mm. Most had gone by the mid 1950s but some were rebuilt with strengthened underframes. These had all gone by 1972. Many tanks continued in service as static tanks long after their rail use had ceased. They got as far as Iran as well as seeing use on most of the european network. I believe that some made it back to the UK. Many of the shorter four wheel wagons were assembled on the Hainault Loop prior to D day. I don't know if the tanks were ever there.

Bernard

There is a current discussion about these wagons on one of the French forums. Several of them may still be in internal use in one of Total refinereries carrying firefighting foam but in France they seem to have left normal service on the national network in the mid 1950s due to limited capacity though some remained in service as departmental stock. Several have been preserved in France and in Germany DB used them as cement wagons. Roco have one of these in their catalogue (ref 66820) that I think is the former Kleinbahn model but these are of course in 1/87 scale.

 

American RRs don't use buffers, buffer beams or screw couplings so do you happen to know whether the wagons were built with these in America or whether they were added when they were assembled in Britain ? In either case what type of buffer did they use?

 

David

[Bernard Lamb]

 

 

American RRs don't use buffers, buffer beams or screw couplings so do you happen to know whether the wagons were built with these in America or whether they were added when they were assembled in Britain ? In either case what type of buffer did they use?

 

David

 

 

The buffers were on the original spec and were AFAIK supplied with the wagons. They were only 53cm long. As the couplings were standard the difference between the 53cm of these wagons and the 65cm of standard european stock caused a bit of a problem with rough riding. They had to be fitted with packing pieces to correct this and to allow a safe clearance for a shunter to work between wagons. From photos the buffers appear to be similar to the GWR self contained type. Some wagons had a slimmer longer type of buffer similar to the German type. I imagine that these were fitted as an alternative to the originals with packing pieces. The wheels were cast iron and did not last that long, speed was limited to 65kmph. The wheels had all been changed by 1953.

Bernard

[Mark Saunders]

These tanks were built in the USA for use after the invasion of Europe along with other wagons including opens.

 

Several of these tanks were used in the UK before going to Europe but were not formally registered but records of them are at the NRM at York and a photo is published in Touret showing 5 of them at an unidentified location (in traffic).

 

Mark Saunders

[jonhall]

I posted a couple of photo's of preserved examples at Speyer on the old rmweb -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35912#p554688

 

Jon

[Bernard Lamb]

I posted a couple of photo's of preserved examples at Speyer on the old rmweb -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35912#p554688

 

Jon

Thanks Jon.

That does explain the point I was trying to make about the buffers and packing pieces. It also shows an indication that the tank could be put on the underframe either way round.

Bernard

[Fat Controller]

At various times, I believe I've seen similar vehicles around France with single domes (normally in diesel depots and works)- would these have been from WW1? There were certainly bogie opens, flats and vans built for use by the American army in Europe in the latter stages of WW1, which were bought en-masse by the French government at the end of hostilities. These were normally described as 'TP' (Travaux Publiques)in the same way that some British mineral wagons were known as 'MoS'. I believe they had rather more rustic-looking fabricated diamond frame bogies.

[Pacific231G]

The buffers were on the original spec and were AFAIK supplied with the wagons. They were only 53cm long. As the couplings were standard the difference between the 53cm of these wagons and the 65cm of standard european stock caused a bit of a problem with rough riding. They had to be fitted with packing pieces to correct this and to allow a safe clearance for a shunter to work between wagons. From photos the buffers appear to be similar to the GWR self contained type. Some wagons had a slimmer longer type of buffer similar to the German type. I imagine that these were fitted as an alternative to the originals with packing pieces. The wheels were cast iron and did not last that long, speed was limited to 65kmph. The wheels had all been changed by 1953.

Bernard

 

Thanks Bernard. I guess the one advantage of 3 link couplings was that shunters could use a coupling pole from outside the buffers I've got an Etat safety instructions book and it's full of dire graphic warnings about the dangers of working between wagons. I'm surprised cast iron wheels lasted at all but that explains the spoked wheels on many of these wagons in service after the war.

[hmrspaul]

Not the same as in this photograph but here is an example of a similar wagon with a single filler in Iran. http://paulbartlettsotherrailwayphotos.fotopic.net/p47118896.html

 

Paul

York