Kings cross trackplan

[Simon Moore]

Hi guys i'm sure it was from this very forum i obtained a trackplan of Kings cross which covered the diesel stabling point / depot adjacent to the station. Recently my computer went kaput & when i rebooted i lost alote of items on the computer including my trackplan. I've always fancied modelling the depot area because doing a few calculations it would fit into a 8 x 2 space & i already have the boards built. Their are plenty of prototypes out aswell now that cover the majority of locos etc that called at the depot/station so with all this in mind could anyone supply me with a copy of the plan please so i can start learning templot again & giving it a bash.

 

Cheers

 

Simon.

[gresley]

Hi guys i'm sure it was from this very forum i obtained a trackplan of Kings cross which covered the diesel stabling point / depot adjacent to the station. Recently my computer went kaput & when i rebooted i lost alote of items on the computer including my trackplan. I've always fancied modelling the depot area because doing a few calculations it would fit into a 8 x 2 space & i already have the boards built. Their are plenty of prototypes out aswell now that cover the majority of locos etc that called at the depot/station so with all this in mind could anyone supply me with a copy of the plan please so i can start learning templot again & giving it a bash.

 

Cheers

 

Simon.

 

 

Simon,

 

I'd be glad to help if I could. I own the track and signalling diagram from the signal box at King's Cross after removal of the turntable, but before closure of the third tunnel. Unfortunately, it is so large (the diagram) that I would have difficulty photographing it. However, I will peruse the various books and magazine articles and see if I can come up with a suitable solution.

 

gresley

[Flood]

Modern Railways had an article in 1977 regarding the revision of the track layout down to two tunnels. They had diagrams of both the original and revised layout. I'm at work at the moment but I can find the actual month as soon as I get home.

 

The British Library will certainly have a copy and you may well be able to find a second hand copy at one of the preserved railways.

 

I'll be back!

[Fat Controller]

Hi guys i'm sure it was from this very forum i obtained a trackplan of Kings cross which covered the diesel stabling point / depot adjacent to the station. Recently my computer went kaput & when i rebooted i lost alote of items on the computer including my trackplan. I've always fancied modelling the depot area because doing a few calculations it would fit into a 8 x 2 space & i already have the boards built. Their are plenty of prototypes out aswell now that cover the majority of locos etc that called at the depot/station so with all this in mind could anyone supply me with a copy of the plan please so i can start learning templot again & giving it a bash.

 

Cheers

 

Simon.

The depot area was covered in an article in MRC in the 1970s- I might have a copy.

[LNERGE]

I'll try and find the rest and post it in due course if it's any use..

 

http://richard2890.fotopic.net/p56165332.html

[Flood]

Apologies for not replying sooner. The article is in the October 1977 Modern Railways.

[DavidB-AU]

Does this help?

 

http://www.abrail.co.uk/Images/Kings%20X%20Map.jpg

 

Cheers

David

[roythebus]

Hmm, interesting to see the steam age plan. As I've mentioned here on other threads, I worked as a secondman at KX from 1975 to mid 78, so was there during the changover.

 

The loco area was known as "passenger loco". Arriving locos usually went in on the back road from the suburban platforms, and departed via the very short headshunt. That headshunt was so short that 40s and 45s had to buffer right up to the stops to clear the point. ISTR the same problems with Deltics. The fuel road was next to the small shed. Locos were often stabled overnight in platform 16 or 17, which had a very sharp curve.

 

The shed there was only used for running exams and minor repairs during layover times.

 

there was a sign by the headshunt exit which instructed "HALT for one moment". How long a moment is wasn't in the rule book!

[Colossus]

Hi guys i'm sure it was from this very forum i obtained a trackplan of Kings cross which covered the diesel stabling point / depot adjacent to the station. Recently my computer went kaput & when i rebooted i lost alote of items on the computer including my trackplan. I've always fancied modelling the depot area because doing a few calculations it would fit into a 8 x 2 space & i already have the boards built. Their are plenty of prototypes out aswell now that cover the majority of locos etc that called at the depot/station so with all this in mind could anyone supply me with a copy of the plan please so i can start learning templot again & giving it a bash.

 

Cheers

 

Simon.

 

Hi Simon,

 

The Railway Magazine also did an article about remodelling "The Throat" which carried a 'before' and 'after' trackplan. It was the May 77 issue. The servicing point track layout and that of the western 'Milk Dock' sidings area seem to have been largely unaltered from the 1930s until the remodelling for electrification in the mid 70s. The only major change was the removal of the loco turntable around 1960.

[Colossus]

Hmm, interesting to see the steam age plan. As I've mentioned here on other threads, I worked as a secondman at KX from 1975 to mid 78, so was there during the changover.

 

The loco area was known as "passenger loco". Arriving locos usually went in on the back road from the suburban platforms, and departed via the very short headshunt. That headshunt was so short that 40s and 45s had to buffer right up to the stops to clear the point. ISTR the same problems with Deltics. The fuel road was next to the small shed. Locos were often stabled overnight in platform 16 or 17, which had a very sharp curve.

 

The shed there was only used for running exams and minor repairs during layover times.

 

there was a sign by the headshunt exit which instructed "HALT for one moment". How long a moment is wasn't in the rule book!

 

Fascinating insight Roy on KX from someone 'on the inside'. I'd like to ask your opinion on a couple of things that have never been clear to me. You say that there was a set pattern to LIP arrivals/departures: in via the suburbans and the back road and 'off shed' using the headshunt. Can I ask, did the shunt onto the depot always use the same suburban platform? Pictures seem to suggest the shunt was via what I'll call "platform 19" (one of the motorail platforms) - if we take the highest numbered platform in 1975 to be Plat 15.

 

Also, I always assumed that motorail vehicles and some parcels vans for inclusion in overnight trains were loaded 'over there' in the milk dock/Motorail platforms (the suburban platforms) as you call them. Did the train loco (ie, Deltic, 47 etc) ever do the marshalling of these vans form the milk dock area onto the front of the train in the main platform? Or, was this always done by class 31?

 

Hope Simon doesn't mind the mild hijack of the thread and that he finds any answer you give on the above, useful also.

[Swindon 123]

Hi Colossus,

I was a secondman and later relief driver at the Cross from 1979 to 84 and well remember shunting the motorails. This was always done with the KX pilot, which had to be a 31. This was because the roads used for loading had very tight curves on them and shunting the stock required some heavy buffering up to be done. 31's because of their oval buffers could be used for this. Anything fitted with Oleo buffers could not be used as they had a habit of loosing their buffer heads when buffering up on very sharp curves, as testified by the amount of 47 buffer heads lying in the 4 ft in that area. 40's and 46's where also banned from one of the loading docks on acount of their bogies and Deltics where too difficult to make shunts with on account of them being easy to overload at low speed/buffering up to a train. The inward stock arrived just after the rush hour at around 1800hrs and usually consisted of the stock to form the 19.01 parcels, 22.45 newspapers and the motorail stock, a mixture of GUV's and car carriers. it was then shunted around with the 19.01 going onto Platform 8, the 22.45 stock onto platform 9 and the motorail stock over to the loading docks. There where 2 docks. One for the Guvs and another special one for the car carriers and they loaded at a different height. They only held 3 vehicles at the most so some careful planning was required if there was more than 3 of any type to be loaded. These would then be shunted out about 30 mins before departure across onto the required train. According to my diaries the three pilot turns where 07.00, turn 651, 14.30, turn 652, 23.30 turn 653. Of the three, turn 651 had the least to do as once you had formed up the inward motorail vehicles for departure there was very little to do except the shunt release of the 14.11 afternoon parcels although you had to be ready for the odd emergency shunt release of a loco required in a hurry. The afternoon turn was busy at the end of the shift shunting all the motorail vans onto their respective trains and sometimes the night relief crew had to chase the loco around the station to relieve you. The night turn was a case of little and often as trains arrived and stock had to be shunted off and over to the motorail docks and sometimes that could end up with your relief chasing you around the station as well if things had "gone wrong". Enjoyable times though.

 

Paul J.

[Colossus]

Hi Colossus,

I was a secondman and later relief driver at the Cross from 1979 to 84 and well remember shunting the motorails. This was always done with the KX pilot, which had to be a 31. This was because the roads used for loading had very tight curves on them and shunting the stock required some heavy buffering up to be done. 31's because of their oval buffers could be used for this. Anything fitted with Oleo buffers could not be used as they had a habit of loosing their buffer heads when buffering up on very sharp curves, as testified by the amount of 47 buffer heads lying in the 4 ft in that area. 40's and 46's where also banned from one of the loading docks on acount of their bogies and Deltics where too difficult to make shunts with on account of them being easy to overload at low speed/buffering up to a train. The inward stock arrived just after the rush hour at around 1800hrs and usually consisted of the stock to form the 19.01 parcels, 22.45 newspapers and the motorail stock, a mixture of GUV's and car carriers. it was then shunted around with the 19.01 going onto Platform 8, the 22.45 stock onto platform 9 and the motorail stock over to the loading docks. There where 2 docks. One for the Guvs and another special one for the car carriers and they loaded at a different height. They only held 3 vehicles at the most so some careful planning was required if there was more than 3 of any type to be loaded. These would then be shunted out about 30 mins before departure across onto the required train. According to my diaries the three pilot turns where 07.00, turn 651, 14.30, turn 652, 23.30 turn 653. Of the three, turn 651 had the least to do as once you had formed up the inward motorail vehicles for departure there was very little to do except the shunt release of the 14.11 afternoon parcels although you had to be ready for the odd emergency shunt release of a loco required in a hurry. The afternoon turn was busy at the end of the shift shunting all the motorail vans onto their respective trains and sometimes the night relief crew had to chase the loco around the station to relieve you. The night turn was a case of little and often as trains arrived and stock had to be shunted off and over to the motorail docks and sometimes that could end up with your relief chasing you around the station as well if things had "gone wrong". Enjoyable times though.

 

Paul J.

 

Hi Paul,

 

Apologies being slow to acknowledge. Have just seen your kind reply which is truly riveting to me.

Your memories make it very clear why the 31s held sway over in the western sidings at KX.

Your mention of the differing heights of the 2 double track loading docks which, in turn, marked them out for either motorail or GUVs, is the sort

of operational detail I've found it hard to come by. Thanks so much for that!

 

You say that stock for the 19.01 parcels, 22.45 papers and assorted GUVs/CarCarriers arrived after 18.00. I assume you mean as three separate trains. If so, did the car vans arrive as one train which was then split and loaded before being added (in their twos and threes) to the front of the various overnight departures? Did these car vans arrive at a regular platform?

 

Also Paul, did the very farthest western siding - the one alongside the wall of the old Culross 'tenemant' housing (demolished recently), have any specific use? I suspect, as it was a longer siding, that it was an important part of this early evening van shuffling routine. Any further gen most appreciated.

 

Very best regards.

[roythebus]

What Swindon123 says is about right. I didn't keep detailed diaries from that era, more's the pity nowadays. ISTR the motorail stock would come in as one train from Ferme Park.

 

There was no set pattern for locos entering the passenger loco, basically whatever road was available at the time. The bit about the buffers made me chuckle. One night a secondman managed to make a rough shunt in the sharply curved platform (16?). In the morning "someone" found a selection of locos with broken buffers, 4 in all!

 

Station shunting was nearly always done by the station pilot, always a 31, usually ETH fitted so it could pre=heat stock if required.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Don't know if this sketch is of any use.

[bennyboy]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but there was an issue of Model Trains from the early 80s which was about modelling the Milk dock and the loco shed as it was at the time and it featured a few pictures of it.