Exhibitions managers beware you could be sued!

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I came across this on another forum http://www.modelgeeks.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/rail/9082/After-being-refused-exhibition-space-Racial-Religious-Discrimination

 

He plans too sue Warners on race & religious discrimination for refusing him a stand at Ally Pally!

 

David

[oggy1953]

What was the date ? April 1st by any chance !!!!

[David Bigcheeseplant]

What was the date ? April 1st by any chance !!!!

 

That was my first thought but it was posted in March, also the email correspondence seems genuine, if it is then he seems a bit of a nutter.

[thedon]

That was my first thought but it was posted in March, also the email correspondence seems genuine, if it is then he seems a bit of a nutter.

After reading that lot May 6 might be a useful day.

thedon

[Guest Max Stafford]

Unfortunately, the powers that be are terrified of bampots like these and will bend over backwards to accommodate them with ever increasing and bizarre legislation which is forcing the rest of us without axes to grind to increasingly have to bend over forwards...

 

Dave.

[petethemole]

A bit of google surfing reveals that this person, or an associate, but I think the same, wants the international telecoms authorities to ban the use of "hello" on the phone and substitute "Haribol" ("meaning, 'chant Hari or the the Supreme Personality of Godhead's

Lord's name.'"). Falling off the wave then led to some very nasty places but they weren't related to him.

[298]

I like David's reply....!!

 

But I dare any exhibition manager to invite this clown to their show. If exhibiting at Ally Pally was so important, did the nutter protest outside by handing out leaflets and waving a big blue banner (like that bloke outside parliament whenever there is a outside broadcast)...

[Tony_S]

I would have imagined that if he really did have a model of Calcutta station he would be very welcome on the exhibition circuit. While he may consider that his model will help him travel his path to enlightenment perhaps he shouldn't be shortening the journey by complaining to the police. Putting some pictures on a modelling site would perhaps be more appropriate?

[DIFFLOCK]

[rant on]This is what you get when the country's authorities feel they have to pander to the laws (religious and political) of other socities despite the fact that such people are in fact living in this country under English law [/rant on]

 

I agree that the person should have made photos of the layout available at least to the organisers, if not the internet, to see if it was in fact worthy of exhibiting (a very subjective area I know). I for one think that the subject matter would be quite interesting; foreign railway and rolling stock.

 

Diff.

[Oldddudders]

Look on the bright side, chaps! People like this make the rest of us - puffer-nutters, trainspotters, toy train freaks, wotever society may term us - look solidly NORMAL! Hooray!

[2ManySpams]

Think I may sue too. We provided our details a year ago and we didn't get a slot at this year's show. This exhibiting lark really is tough on us minorities.

 

Chris

(Modelling the NCR in 1961)

[David Bigcheeseplant]

The thing I like is that as he buys BRM, Traction and other Warners mags he has a right to attend their show! It's like buying a newspaper and thinking you have a right to attend the publishers Christmas party!

 

David

[S.A.C Martin]

I may be being unfair here, but reading this:

 

Dear Mr MacRae

 

I refer to our phone conversation on Friday about exhibiting at The

London Festival of Railway Modelling 2010 in Alexandra Palace on March

27 and 28 2010. I want to exhibit a non-profit cause and your GBP

202.00 and vat tax approximately fees you quoted are too expensive and

thus the only route is if Warners Group Publications the organisers of

the show could consider a discount. You mentioned that other non-

profit groups that will be exhibiting are getting discounts. For

consideration and relevance, I mentioned to you that this project is

for automating a spiritual ceremony.

 

The spiritual ceremony is related to Prabhupada (His Divine Grace) and

founder of the Gaudiya Vaisnava movement who brings many thousands

from the West to this Devotional Yoga path and is the living spiritual

master initiating via the rail modelling system. This will be of

diecast and based on the Calcutta's Howrah Station. The exhibition

will allow the project to be told to others. I would be grateful if

your manager can include this project and provide space for this

project on the exhibition floor. I have done door-to-door flyers in

December 2009 at a town of Bushey in Hertfordshire for this project.

Gradually this project is starting, I hope you could allow this

project as this is very relevant for the rail modelling world.

 

Regards.....

 

...and this...

 

Dear Mr Greenwood, Mr Brown & Mr Emerson

 

After having sent an email to Mr Iain MacRae (your employee) wishing

to exhibit at The London Festival of Railway Modelling 2010 in

Alexandra Palace on March 27 and 28 2010 as a non-profit, I was

refused. The reason for being excluding by Mr MacRae when he had

contacted his managers on his email is: “We do not feel it has enough

to do with the genre we are basing the show on.†This was said after I

had said in an email requesting participation in: “.....I hope you

could allow this project as this is very relevant for the rail

modelling world.†I said this because it relates to telling others

about rail modelling (the “genreâ€) for a spiritual ceremony

automation. I was not requested by anyone in your company to answer

any relevancy questions.

 

Thus I cannot really see why if the presentation is related to rail

modelling why I am being excluded from exhibiting at the show. The

only difference is that my presentation on rail modelling is based on

Howrah Station Calcutta has a spiritual practical purpose. For that

reason alone, why should I be excluded for presenting about rail

modelling based on Howrah Station Calcutta? I cannot understand why I

am being stopped from my exhibiting at the show when I have bought

rail modelling magazines, have verbally and in writing contacted

others in the rail modelling field, have railway modelling literature

from the public library, written publicly about rail modelling

possibilities thus expanding it's field and have arranged websites,

for example actual rail one that will in some way facilitate Howrah

Station modelling: http://sites.google.com/site/32rail32.

 

I thus feel racially / religiously discriminated against and

victimised by Mr Iain MacRae and the specific managers he contacted,

who excluded my presentation. This I feel is illegal as it is

religious / racial discrimination and victimisation. I wish to meet at

the show with other railway modelling enthusiasts This attitude goes

against rail modelling principles that are about inclusion and which

you try and portray on your Collectors Gazette, Diecast Collector,

British Railway Modelling, Ramsay's British Model Trains Catalogue and

Model Railway Collector publications and also at rail modelling

events, The Festival of British Railway Modelling, The London Festival

of Railway Modelling and The National Festival of Railway Modelling.

 

Could you please allow my presentation at the The London Festival of

Railway Modelling 2010 in Alexandra Palace on March 27 and 28 2010 ?

 

Please respond within next 24 hours via email.

 

...it just sounds to me like the model is completely secondary to enforcing his beliefs I underlined in the first quotation. I may be doing him a disservice? The subject for modelling can be found here:

 

 

Image is the copyright of Henry Hutcheon, and can be found here at this fascinating blog on Calcutta.

 

If he had simply asked to display his model of the station, I am not certain he would have been refused in the first instance, but dressing it up in religious overtones naturally in this day and age arouses suspicions.

 

For what it's worth, I feel Mr Macrae could have requested photographs of the exhibit in question in his first response, that would have allowed a dismissal on the grounds of the quality of the exhibit, should it have been found lacking by their standards.

 

I'm split here - neither party here seems totally blameless. They both could have phrased and handled it better.

[Glorious NSE]

For what it's worth, I feel Mr Macrae could have requested photographs of the exhibit in question in his first response, that would have allowed a dismissal on the grounds of the quality of the exhibit, should it have been found lacking by their standards.

 

<snip>

They both could have phrased and handled it better.

 

From my reading (and we all need to keep VERY clear in our minds that only one side of the email conversation has been published - we only have a secondhand account of how Warners did actually reply and handle the issue) he was asking about a trade stand with a discount as a non-profit group - not attending as an invited layout.

 

Reading his emails i'm not convinced he has a layout in what we would regard as the conventional sense, note he says "Gradually this project is starting".

[Jim49]

Is it just me or does Calcutta Station look like Kings Cross?

 

Jim

[Mucky Duck]

Is it just me or does Calcutta Station look like Kings Cross?

 

Jim

 

It's not just you. I had to do a double take!

[pete_mcfarlane]

Thus I have contacted the Police about racial / religious discrimination from Warners Group.

Followed shortly afterwards by the Police Complaints Authority, to register a complaint about the desk sergeant not taking him seriously.

 

The one set of people he doesn't seem to have complained to are the Equality and Human Rights Commision - the body who actually deal with (real) racial and religous descrimination.

[ian]

Is it just me or does Calcutta Station look like Kings Cross?

 

Jim

 

It IS King's Cross - the traffic is just the result of the Congestion Charge

[S.A.C Martin]

From my reading (and we all need to keep VERY clear in our minds that only one side of the email conversation has been published - we only have a secondhand account of how Warners did actually reply and handle the issue) he was asking about a trade stand with a discount as a non-profit group - not attending as an invited layout.

 

Reading his emails i'm not convinced he has a layout in what we would regard as the conventional sense, note he says "Gradually this project is starting".

 

A very fair point there, well made.

[frame69]

I feel sorry for this guy if he is a genuine enthusiast but surely anybody linked with certain areas and religions must understand the anxiety and suspicion they bring with them. The trouble is we have not got the balls to stick up for ourselves anymore.People used to address their letters'Great Britain' but now its just Britain. Gone too far to fix it now.Im glad Im down here away from all that rubbish.

Amen...Frame.

[PMP]

I note he says:

This attitude goes against rail modelling principles that are about inclusion

 

I wasn't aware that any modelling genre was about 'inclusion' and had specific principles to that effect, I thought they were about modelling. I wonder if as part of this 'inclusion' he's allowed free access to every club/society etc in the land? The one sided part of the argument is very pertinant, even more so that he's apparently provided no evidence of actually doing any modelling himself. Reminds me of someone else entirely who had a religeous fervour about him.

 

On a more serious note, I love to see good models of any genre, region and/or scale, what I don't want to do is view them as part of a a 'faith' experience of any denomination. I go to a toy train show to see toy trains. ENDEX.

[frame69]

I agree that any type of scale work should have a place at exhibitions but this can cause problems in itself as the religios fella could take exception to another modellers choice of subject...WW2...historic themes can be upsetting for some with personal involvment.

Religion is the one to be most carefull with,you only have to fly the wrong colour flag and you've got a court case looming.Bacon roll anyone?

Frame.

[The Stationmaster]

I would find a diecast model of that station quite interesting - if only to try to get an idea of how it was made.

 

Or perhaps it was diecast bullocks he had in mind?

[Dr.Glum]

I suspect there may be a lot of bullocks involved.

 

Cheers, Tony

[Chameleon]

I think you summed it up perfectly Dave. It is the exhibition managers perogative what gets invited/included in the show. There may be considerations of space, variety or context to weigh up. Also you are in no way obligated to include ANY exhibit regardless of content or religious belief...

Its YOUR show and it is up to YOU what you exhibit at it.

The complainant has just siezed on the fact that it is a big company, IE Warners that is running the show and thinks editorial rules apply.