Anyone stranded abroad at the moment?

[Baby Deltic]

I'm stuck in Barcelona

[BoD]

Best place for you.

 

Seriously though, can't be much fun, all that uncertainty ...... and then there's the possible cost implications. You have my sympathy.

 

Unless of course the firm is paying and giving you an extended holiday, in which case I'm jealous.

[Baby Deltic]

Best place for you.

 

Seriously though, can't be much fun, all that uncertainty ...... and then there's the possible cost implications. You have my sympathy.

 

Unless of course the firm is paying and giving you an extended holiday, in which case I'm jealous.

 

I am on business. I originally flew down to Faro, Portugal, on Monday, picked up a hire car and drove to Mazagon in the south of spain. I was due to fly home on Friday, then the flight ban happened, so the boss said "Ah, we have a sales demo at the company office in Barcelona, fancy covering it?". I had to drive nearly 1000 miles over the weekend, so I'm here in the hotel, but the sales lot are in England, so there's fat chance of them getting here tomorrow afternoon and actually doing anything. I need to be thinking about my escape route, I think.

[The Stationmaster]

I am on business. I originally flew down to Faro, Portugal, on Monday, picked up a hire car and drove to Mazagon in the south of spain. I was due to fly home on Friday, then the flight ban happened, so the boss said "Ah, we have a sales demo at the company office in Barcelona, fancy covering it?". I had to drive nearly 1000 miles over the weekend, so I'm here in the hotel, but the sales lot are in England, so there's fat chance of them getting here tomorrow afternoon and actually doing anything. I need to be thinking about my escape route, I think.

 

 

Ferry Santander to Plymouth, Googlemaps makes Barcelona 708kms (6-7hrsish) from Santander. Probably a mere picnic after driving through Portugal (unless things there are much improved?).

[AndrewC]

We've got the opposite problem. MIL and brother-in-law were supposed to fly back to Canada on Saturday. Looks like it will take 4-5 days after flights start up again before they can get home.

[Baby Deltic]

We've got the opposite problem. MIL and brother-in-law were supposed to fly back to Canada on Saturday. Looks like it will take 4-5 days after flights start up again before they can get home.

 

They keep on about the ban being lifted tomorrow, but it'll be chaos for a few days I reckon. Two of my colleagues are also stranded- one in Moscow, the other in Istanbul, so I'm not alone.B)

[lapford34102]

I'm stuck in Barcelona

 

Trenhotel (http://www.elipsos.com/htm/default.htm?lang=3) Barcelona to Paris, then Eurostar. Though expect they're pretty full up already.

 

Stu

[Baby Deltic]

Trenhotel (http://www.elipsos.com/htm/default.htm?lang=3) Barcelona to Paris, then Eurostar. Though expect they're pretty full up already.

 

Stu

 

We've thought of that one. Apparently the ferries are wedged too. I might be here until Friday anyway, if things go to plan, but if the ban lasts all week, I'll need to bail out somehow. As nice as Spain is, I'd rather come home if I can.

[Coombe Barton]

I have 2-300 overseas students who are supposed to be starting their degree exams tomorrow who are stranded - mostly all over south east Asia, China, Nigeria, East Africa, Russia and anywhere else you can think of. We're going to be setting more exams than we thought we'd have to as we can't disadvantage them. Exam boards will be interesting. I also have a pair of colleagues who've got married over Easter (to each other) in her home in Singapore and have been taking a honeymoon on tour. We may see them sometime in May.

[Oldddudders]

That flash lot, the Formula 1 crowd, had a race in Shanghai earlier today. The Brits won, for wot it's worth. According to one of the F1 websites, Emirates are quoting end-April for flights out, and Virgin say 5th May. I'm sure our hearts bleed for them. Apparently Shanghai has a big exhibition this week, so hotel rates are ramping up, too, in a location that is apparently not popular with the teams anyway. So much for fame and fortune, F1 style!

[Sidecar Racer]

I have the opposite problem , I'm stuck here in Somerset and I should be in

Benidorm , thats my retirement present to myself out the window .

 

 

[Baby Deltic]

I have the opposite problem , I'm stuck here in Somerset and I should be in

Benidorm , thats my retirement present to myself out the window .

 

 

 

Sorry to hear that. It must be frustrating when you've payed for a holiday and can't take it due to an 'act of God' or 'natural occurence' however you view it.

[Kenton]

Emirates are quoting end-April for flights out, and Virgin say 5th May

I thought F1 teams had their own Jumbo transports or hired them. So do not need to rely on the common carriers?

Isn't there a 3 week gap to the next race and it is in southern Europe - Barcelona?

As far as I know, it is not a world wide flight ban - just affecting those who wish to fly in to UK and northern Europe.

 

I'm sure I watched a BBC advert for P&O ferries claiming that anyone turning up at their Spanish port (Bilbao?) would be taken across to the UK (might be a bit of a queue)

 

 

What I don't understand is why this couldn't have been predicted? Why did appear to happen all of a sudden? The volcano has been erupting for about a month now - surely someone should have gone "what if the wind changes to a particular direction?" High pressure over the UK in April through to September is the norm (despite the climate change folk would have you to believe otherwise). Also as the volcano doesn't seem likely to stop erupting in the near future I think the UK might be in a lock-down on and off for months to come. At least a high pressure keeps it from settling. Just think at some point all the muck has to come to ground. Got your masks ready?

[Sidecar Racer]

Sorry to hear that. It must be frustrating when you've payed for a holiday and can't take it due to an 'act of God' or 'natural occurence' however you view it.

 

 

It is a bit of a dissapoinment to say the least , but the tour operator is being very good over the

problem , they kept updating the situation on their web site and by e-mail and then finally they said

anybody who has been unable to travel can have either , a full refund or change of booking with

out ' incuring the usual fees ' .

 

I do sympathise with your situation though , hope they dont run out of San Miguel over there .

[Supaned]

I suppose I'm one of the "fortunate few".

 

I was visiting Poland last week , on thursday I had intended to travel from Poznan to Katowice via Wroclaw (basically heading East) , to catch a flight on friday afternoon back to the UK.

 

Luckily , a friend sent me a text advising of the problem on thursday morning , I then decided to cut my losses and head back towards the UK over land , hoping to be able to obtain a ticket for Eurostar.

 

My move to get home was Wroclaw - Berlin , then on an overnight ICE service to Koln , then to Aachen , over the border to Liege , then to Lille and on to Calais.

 

My wife had been trying to book a Eurostar ticket from either Paris or Brussels , or indeed a foot passenger ticket from Calais , but all were sold out , so we decided that she would book a day return on Eurotunnel and collect me from Calais.

 

During my journey , I met numerous Brits trying to make their way home , some had foot passenger bookings so should in theory have been ok , the others were just intending to turn up and hope.

 

Looking at the news , I made the right decision....

[LNWR lives on]

Intresting point to add, on Radio 1 about Lunchtime they were talking to a member of cabin crew who was having an unexpected break, waiting by the phone ready to go when airspace is re-opened and he had been told by his airline it was expected 4-5 days from now at the minimum.

 

As for the Formula 1 circus I would guess some of them may be already planing to land as close as they can and then truck the cars home from as close as they can get them. F1 truckies drive long distances to many races, indeed Barcelona is the first of the transporter races this season, which also means we will see the new motor homes appearing in the paddock. DHL transport for Williams as they also sponsor them, who transports for the rest of the teams i am not sure but i do know Bernie (FOCA) pays for alot of the transport that is required so you can bet your bottom dollar he is bending the airlines ears

[mercig studios]

Can't see any normality being restored for quite a while . My partner who works as cabin crew is currently stuck in Italy, Even after the cloud lifts there will be a period of instability due to planes being stuck around the globe which will need repositioning as well as flight crew/cabin crew who will be on a minimum 2 day rest after being away for 4+ days.

[Paperlad]

Dudes,

 

Very much from the other side of the fence as I am a pilot for a fairly major UK airline, some will know which as I have posted before on flying related threads.

 

From a very personal perspective when all this started (Thu AM in England, a bit earlier in Scotland) it was all a bit of a lark, stood down from work on Thu and the prospect of no flying again on Fri. So a couple of extra days off whilst on, pretty much, full pay. Result!

 

However, I have just been stood down again for tomorrow (Mon 19th) so that makes five days of not going to work. This situation applies to all of our pilots, cabin crew and engineers. The same will be happening in ALL other airlines in the UK and many around Europe and further afield. How many companies, in any industry, could survive this sort of downturn in business, particularly when we have been having a very lean time since the beginning of the 'recession'.

 

What began as a 'storm in a tea cup' has now become a major concern in the industry.

 

My company has now begun requesting volunteers for unpaid leave and there is at least one other company threatening layoffs if this situation goes on beyond Tuesday, which is quite probable.

 

For anyone, even remotely interested, here is an extract from a letter by our union and sent to the UK government earlier today. Some of it is a bit dry reading but you will get the drift.

 

 

"Firstly on the decision making that has lead to closure. NATS will not have taken this decision lightly and BALPA can only respect their decision – we are fans of caution. However this is not the first volcanic eruption that there has been in the world, but it is the first time that there has been the closure of so much airspace, for such a prolonged period and with no end in sight. Aviation safety thrives in an open culture and we are asking:

 

1. Whether the Met Office and NATS have opened their assumptions to peer review by other authorities elsewhere in the world, many of whom will have had practical experience of dealing with ash clouds caused by eruptions?

 

2. What criteria will be used to decide if it is again safe to open the airspace? Will it continue to be based on computer modelling, will practical experience be brought to bear; what further testing do the decision makers need?

 

 

 

BALPA General Secretary Jim McAuslan said: ‘These are important questions. Pilots’ ultimate responsibility under the Air Navigation Order (our equivalent of the Hippocratic Oath) is for the safe transport of passengers. Pilots will want to know on what basis the decision to re-open is being taken. To help us get there we are willing to help analyse the current data, identify gaps and provide an aviators’ input. We can field expertise; all we need is to be asked’.

 

 

 

Secondly on getting people home. It is not an exaggeration to say that a Dunkirk spirit is needed. Even when the skies are opened, aircraft will be in the wrong place all over the world. British pilots, many of whom have themselves been stranded away from home, will do everything they can to bring the situation back to normal as quickly as possible whilst maintaining the highest standards of flight safety. Doing this effectively will need a joined up approach across airlines.

 

 

 

Thirdly, on the short term financial impact which could not be more serious for an industry already reeling from the economic downturn. A number of airlines are now staring bankruptcy in the face and if their aircraft are subsequently grounded tens of thousands of people will be marooned abroad. The Government needs to step in and show the same approach it took to keeping banks afloat; if it fails to act it will find that an equally important foundation of our economy is lost. The EU also needs to act as their delayed passenger compensation scheme was never designed with this situation in mind and is now crippling our industry. Jim McAuslan said: ‘the financial fall out from this could not be more serious. The experience we had when XL went under was only a taster of what we now face.’"

 

 

 

PS. Happy to answer any Q's to the best of my ability.

 

Paperlad.

Lets get back to normal as soon as poss B)

[Robert]

That was a very eloquent post Paperlad. Not much to add, other than to say I work in the industry and it certainly doesn't need this at the moment.

 

Whilst I appreciate that Volcanic ash can certainly present a significant hazard (ask Captain Moody!), I can't believe that it is in significant concentration to cause problems on a grand scale across the whole of Europe and to all intents and purposes the whole of European airspace is currently closed.

 

Pretty much every company in the industry is haemorrhaging money at a time when they can ill afford to do so. Plus, it isn't just passengers - it's freight as well. There really needs to be some sort of contingency in place to prevent something like this from happening again. While I admit that we can't stop a volcano from erupting - if there were more studies done into the effects of ash on engines, and better measuring capabilities then I am sure that we could get the network moving again, if not completely, then partially.

 

As a colleague of mine said this morning, with the current situation what will happen if this volcano continues to bubble for a year or more?

[Bernard Lamb]

 

 

 

As a colleague of mine said this morning, with the current situation what will happen if this volcano continues to bubble for a year or more?

 

 

My understanding of the situation is that it is not just your typical every day volcanic ash that is the problem. It is because, in this case the volcano is erupting from under an ice field. This means that very fine particles akin to glass are being created.It is these particles that are capable of doing serious damage to jet engines. When all the ice has melted it should become just another active volcano. End of problem. Can't tell you how long that will be.

SWMBO now booked with Ryan Air for Wednesday.

Bernard

[DavidB-AU]

As a colleague of mine said this morning, with the current situation what will happen if this volcano continues to bubble for a year or more?

Not impossible. Icelandic volcanoes have done a lot worse, such as when Lakagígar erupted for 8 months in 1783-84. It killed a quarter of the human population and half the animal population of Iceland. At least 23,000 people in the UK died from sulphur dioxide poisoning. SOx deaths were also reported as far away as Prague. The ash cloud caused enough of a cooling effect to disrupt the African and Indian monsoons (almost halting flow of the Nile, resulting in a sixth of the population of Egypt being lost to famine) and ice to appear in the Gulf of Mexico.

 

Cheers

David

[TomE]

Another aviation employee here and I can only echo Paperlad's and Robert's comments. This is the last thing any aviation company, or company dependant on civil aviation, needs right now.

 

For those interested the latest Met office chart showing the forecast contaminated area into Tuesday looks like this:

 

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/data/VAG_1271655414.png

 

The Norwegians have released this interesting animation showing the spread of the ash cloud and it's predicted spread as far as Wednesday morning:

 

http://met.no/animation.gif

 

What we really need to hope for now is a change in weather pattern to shift this contaminated air sitting on top of us.

 

Tom.

[Hammer]

Thanks for the information Paperlad. It's going to be interesting to see what the aviation authorities do next.

I suppose one problem is that if they allow the planes to fly again and even one of them suffers massive engine failure like the BA jet in 1982, the public would be looking for heads to roll. But on the other hand, pilots and carriers are presumably confident in their ability to avoid the same problems.

 

I did read the other day that the air ambulance which is used for transporting people from Lewis to Glasgow went up at the start of the cloud. The pilot didn't have any problems, but the cloud did have an ablative affect on helicopter's windscreen. Of course, since it was a newspaper, they neglected to mention how serious it was - could have been a few scratches or a lot more.

 

On the helicopter front, the North Sea helicopter fleet is currently grounded as well. I suspect things might be getting a bit tense on some of the rigs

 

I'm meant to be heading to Brussels on Sunday. There is the ferry as an alternative, but prices for it have noticeably been going up. £35 out, £90 back now! May well just pass on the whole thing, since I won't get ticket refunds either way and all I'll lose is a €10 deposit on a hostel room.

 

Hopefully, if this goes on for a few weeks, it'll help just revaluate just now much we use air-freight for. Maybe get some goods back onto the rails.

[Ron Ron Ron]

NATS and the Met Office are not acting alone with regard to the ban. They are doing so in concert with Eurocontrol and neighbouring government European Met agencies. The guidelines are defined by ICAO and other international bodies.

I'm quite concerned that the mounting pressure from the beleaguered airline industry is being used in a way that attempts to undermine the safety regimes that are in place.

The so-called "test flights" smack of desparation IMHO. The 'let's chance it" approach has no place in the civil aviation world.

 

On the subject of stranded passengers overseas; when flights are resumed, many will not be able to return so easily.

Most flights from continental Europe to the UK (particularly on the Low-Cost airlines) are heavily booked for the next couple of weeks anyway. In the short term there is not sufficient capacity to accommodate all those whose flights have been cancelled.

It isn't like flights have been delayed and once everything gets moving everyone gets to travel.

 

SWMBO and myself, spent 4 hours on Saturday night, trying to find return travel for friends returning from their house in southern Spain, back home to the UK. Their Sunday flights having been cancelled.

Absolutely no joy finding five seats (assuming flights restarted) on Easy Jet , Ryanair, FlyBe, plus various other airlines; from several Spanish airports (they were prepared to drive across Spain), to anywhere in the UK.

We tried various routings via Amsterdam, Paris, Geneva, Frankfurt etc. No joy until Friday at the earliest.

Some airlines and routes are completely booked up until the end of the month and beyond.

 

BA and Iberia could offer five one-way Premium Business seats from Madrid to London from Thursday onwards, for £3500+ and £4200+ respectively !!!!!!

 

Eurostar Paris - London very early Wednesday morning, or Thursday - €722 for 2 adults & 3 children. Plus the cost of travel from southern Spain to Paris (which proved to be a nightmare...).

 

Despite all the talk of using the ferry as an alternative. Ferry's from Spain (Santander and Bilbao) are also fully booked up until next week.

Car hire for drop off in France or the UK is not available either.

 

Eventually we found some empty seats on FlyBe, Faro to Exeter on Saturday afternoon. There were no others on FlyBe to anywhere in the UK until Tuesday week onwards.

That's an extra week in the sun (except it's p***ing down there apparently) and another week off work and school. It's a tough life !

 

Our neighbours are also stranded in Spain (own place again). The earliest they could re-book for was next Monday. They're quite happy about it though.

 

Now it just depends on the weather systems changing so that the ash plume is blown away to the NE.

.

[Pacific231G]

Dudes,

 

Very much from the other side of the fence as I am a pilot for a fairly major UK airline, some will know which as I have posted before on flying related threads.

 

From a very personal perspective when all this started (Thu AM in England, a bit earlier in Scotland) it was all a bit of a lark, stood down from work on Thu and the prospect of no flying again on Fri. So a couple of extra days off whilst on, pretty much, full pay. Result!.....

......Thirdly, on the short term financial impact which could not be more serious for an industry already reeling from the economic downturn. A number of airlines are now staring bankruptcy in the face and if their aircraft are subsequently grounded tens of thousands of people will be marooned abroad. The Government needs to step in and show the same approach it took to keeping banks afloat; if it fails to act it will find that an equally important foundation of our economy is lost. The EU also needs to act as their delayed passenger compensation scheme was never designed with this situation in mind and is now crippling our industry. Jim McAuslan said: ‘the financial fall out from this could not be more serious. The experience we had when XL went under was only a taster of what we now face.’"

 

PS. Happy to answer any Q's to the best of my ability.

 

Paperlad.

Lets get back to normal as soon as poss B)

 

We may need to look again at what is normal.

 

Something I can't figure out and you may be able to explain is why NATS and the other European control authorities weren't able to establish temporary low level airways to allow aircraft to enter and leave the affected zone beneath the ash level, especially when it was higher than it now appears to be? I know that would have far less capacity than the normal system and increases fuel consumption (but for most flights that would only be for a couple of hundred NM) so is there something I've missed? I'm an active PPL and understand airspace classification but not being instrument rated don't use the airways system.

 

I can't help feeling that NATS got a bit fixated on the idea of simply closing the airspace so while flying outside controlled airspace is proceeding quite normally nobody at all seem to be able to use the regional airports and it's apparently been very difficult for anything commercial to fly at any level because the air traffic units are apparently not offering radar services beyond basic. Aurigny who fly trislanders at low altitudes have been flying quite happily and safely between the channel islands- once their blanket ban was lifted- but can't apparently get into Great Britain. Services from Newquay to the Scillies which are entirely outside controlled airspace have also been running and in London I've not heard a single helicopter on H10 (the main helicopter route along the A40) for days though there was a single chopper over central London yesterday.

 

David