Positioning trackside fences

[AyJay]

Hello All,

Well my layout is progressing rapidly and I am now in the middle of tackling what it all looks like.  Static green stuff and bushes are starting to appear.

I have also recently started fixing some trackside fencing in position, which is what this question is about.

Should I put a fence between the running lines and the engine yard?  And if so, should there be a gate across the track where the engine yard connects to the main line?  I know that Didcot Railway Centre does, but then that is an area open to the public.  As you will see from the picture, the engine yard is along one side and to the front.  The main line curves around behind the turntable at one end.  The station is at the other end. In the middle are all the yard sidings.  There's a signal box too.

 

Any thoughts?  Does anyone know of a suitable prototype for inspiration.  Oh yes, nearly forgot,  it's BR steam,  no specific location.

Thanks

[Compound2632]

I'd say no gate at the exit to the loco - it's all railway company property. 

[The Johnster]

No gate and no fence, these were to keep trespassers and animals off and out of the way of the trains, and denoted the limit of railway owned land.  A private yard, coal mine, steelworks etc would be fenced and gated off, but if the railway owned it it did not need to be fenced off from other bits of the railway, or even from other railways...

 

Except...

 

Fences and railings were used in some places as safety rails, especially where there were differences in levels or where a fast main line ran close to where men were walking or working on the ground.  In this instance you might see a fence separating a loco yard from the running lines; my sense of yours is that there is plenty of space and one is not needed.  But there'll be a concrete path across the end of the shed which will have a short railing to protect that blind corner where men might step out in front of locos accessing the turntable.  Your engine shed does not need a railway gate, though.

 

Where private sidings existed, there was a specified limit as to how far into the private area a railway company loco could operate, usually a notice 'Railway company/executive engines must not pass this notice'; it would usually be at the point at which traffic was exchanged between the main line loco and the works engine.  The works engine was by and large not allowed to leave it's premises and venture on to the railway company's running lines, but some were licensed to do so, a particular feature of NCB locos in the North East of England, where they even operated passenger services in some places.  It's crew may have suitable route knowledge and be passed out on BR rules and regulations, or require a BR pilot driver.  As a general rule, though, the private loco does not venture outside it's own premises, despite what you see on some exhibition layouts...

 

One of my Canton freight guard jobs in the 70s involved entering the gated and fenced off exchange sidings at BP's Llandarcy refinery.  You had to sign in at the gate and there was a gatekeeper's hut at which you had to check in any lighters, matches, or flammable/explosive material you had on you, including your detonators and the train's oil lamp.  Things were usually much less formal than this and many of the gates were left permanently open and would probably have fallen to bits if you'd tried to close them.  But they were there all the same, denoting not just property but legal liability and responsibility.

[LBRJ]

Railway line-side fences were originally there to keep the railway servants in, not to keep the others out.

One would not want the working classes tramping all over ones estates sortta thing.....

[The Johnster]

Not sure about that, LBRJ.  I refer you to George Stephenson's famous comment about the 'coo' and it's embarrassment on the Stockton & Darlington.

[Wheatley]

LBRJ is correct. The original requirement ( in one of the Regulation of Railways Acts) was that they be fenced against trespass onto the adjoining land. The requirement to fence to keep people off the railway didn't come until 1997. 

[TheQ]

26 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

LBRJ is correct. The original requirement ( in one of the Regulation of Railways Acts) was that they be fenced against trespass onto the adjoining land. The requirement to fence to keep people off the railway didn't come until 1997. 

The original IIRC was 1844, so the S&D was 19 years earlier.

[RJS1977]

The reason Didcot has a fence and a gate is to separate their property (or at least the land they have a lease on) from Network Rail land (and yes, to stop visitors to the Centre from wandering onto the main lines). Those fences wouldn't have been there in GWR/BR steam days.

[AyJay]

Thanks for the good comments.   Not having to provide additional fencing means that I don't have to buy it

I particularly like the idea of guard rails alongside paths,  couple of places where I can put them.

[DCB]

There should definitely be a wall or fence round the operating well side of the loco depot to stop random people sneaking in to take loco numbers or steal from the MPD.

 

The turntable is very close to the running lines. Bit late to change it but a loco could easily take out the buffer stop and end up across both main lines which could be somewhat embarrassing.  In steam days the edge of the ballast would have been much crisper and a walking route, often cinders, provided beside the ballast usually on both sides as well as signal wires, and maybe point rodding.  In modern image the whole lot should be a sea of shrubs and stinging nettles ballast included.

[TheSignalEngineer]

1 hour ago, DavidCBroad said:

There should definitely be a wall or fence round the operating well side of the loco depot to stop random people sneaking in to take loco numbers or steal from the MPD.

Being very aware of costs, a fence next to a loco shed would sometimes be made from second hand sleepers mounted vertically with about 6' above ground. Not only used at loco sheds and they last ed a long time if not disturbed.

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4747528

Javis have done something like this but they are pairly easy to make using balsa wood.

 

 

2 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

The turntable is very close to the running lines. Bit late to change it but a loco could easily take out the buffer stop and end up across both main lines which could be somewhat embarrassing.  In steam days the edge of the ballast would have been much crisper and a walking route, often cinders, provided beside the ballast usually on both sides as well as signal wires, and maybe point rodding.  In modern image the whole lot should be a sea of shrubs and stinging nettles ballast included.

Quite prototypical as can be seen in this photo of Coventry No.1 Signal Box

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrcov582.htm

 

New Street also had one completely devoid of a stop block as there wasn't room for one, albeit opposite one of the stabling roads.

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrbns_str1778.htm

 

An alternative is to use a sleeper built ballast filled stop block like the Peco one. I have done that on a siding on my layout where the branch line crosses behind it. 

 

An alternative stop block would be the one in this picture of Grand Junction, encased in a concrete block when a driver in Banbury Street yard misread the signal and ended up with two wheels overhanging the pub in Lawley Street.

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrbhm_sa2320b.htm

[TheSignalEngineer]

A bit of fence between the railway and canal at Bournville

A class 27 at Bournville by geoff7918, on Flickr

 

More at Bordesley

48646 at Lawden Road (pjs,0605) by geoff7918, on Flickr

 

A lot will depend on company, era and surrounding area.

[DCB]

Lots of railway fences are just plain wire on wooden posts, especially away from towns and built up areas.  The MSWJR round here used them and one of their tensioner posts has survived.  There is a ratchet device on the wires so they can be tightened when required.  Difficult to model but I guess piano wire and matchsticks would be a good starting point.

For wooden fences I find old plywood which has got wet and delaminated make acceptable fences if you can separate the plies and cut across the grain to leave what looks like a fence. Add a couple of longitudinal members with super glue  to hold it together and its not exactly a proper job at least its cheap. Doesn't even need painting apart from Ban the Bomb signs from the 1960s.

I found a caption on the Coventry picture explaining the turntable was closer to the tracks than normally acceptable. See screenshot.

[Compound2632]

4 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

More at Bordesley

48646 at Lawden Road (pjs,0605) by geoff7918, on Flickr

 

 

Sleeper-built fence alongside the road, yes. But the sleepers on the side of the embankment look more as if they've been put in to try to stabilise the embankment - unsuccessfully? Or have they been hit by a derailed wagon?

[TheSignalEngineer]

8 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Sleeper-built fence alongside the road, yes. But the sleepers on the side of the embankment look more as if they've been put in to try to stabilise the embankment - unsuccessfully? Or have they been hit by a derailed wagon?

I've checked the bombing records for the area and there was a High Explosive bomb hit just about there c1940, possibly in the raid where an Engine Cleaner got the George Medal for repeatedly taking a loco through the fires to pull out wagons. I think the bank was finally repaired a few weeks after that picture was taken when we were upgrading the line for diversion of the Snow Hill services to New Street in 1966/7.