Lionel Vision Line

[seeseerider]

Hi All,

 

I'm planning to finally start a Lionel O-scale layout in England. Has anyone imported much stock here? Has anyone got any Lionel Vision Line stock? They look really good, and way above the quality of the regular Legacy line stuff. It's a shame they only have a couple of models in the line. For those of you with Legacy locomotives, how do find the quality of those? Are they acceptable for their price? I guess they look borderline just about OK from what I can see online.

 

kind regards.

 

Thomas.

 

 

[brianusa]

Hi Thomas, while I have mostly older Lionel trains with a few newer ones, I would be wary of starting over in the UK.  There is only one prominent dealer that I know of Tennents Trains who is not the cheapest.  Most Lionel modellers there seem to buy from the US which gets expensive mainly due to high postage.  Lionel trains are heavy!  Also there is more assortment of track and accessories as well as locos and rolling stock.  They do go wrong and need repair either within the warranty period or later which usually entails shipping back and forth.  Not for the faint hearted!

      Brian.

[Nearholmer]

I think that there is a Lionel Collectors Group, or something similar, in the UK, and they stage an annual bash somewhere "up north" I think, mind you, it might be "down south" from where you live Thomas. I'd suggest seeking them out and getting the lie of the land, because I concur with Brian that it could get expensive/difficult. EDIT: here they are http://lccuk.org.uk

 

I've just ordered an MTH loco, and ended-up going through their UK (well, Jersey really) distributor, because, by the time postage (over £80 for one loco from the US!!), VAT and import duty were factored-in, they were the same price as buying direct from the US.

 

As regards Lionel quality, the one Lionel loco that is common among UK coarse-scale collectors is their Hall Class, either in GWR or Harry Potter guise. I know many people who have them, and I've never heard anything but praise for both build quality and running quality; I've got one for my children and their friends to drive, and it is a cracker. I think the difference with Vision Line relates to prototype fidelity, rather than build or running quality.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Nearholmer

[seeseerider]

10 hours ago, brianusa said:

Hi Thomas, while I have mostly older Lionel trains with a few newer ones, I would be wary of starting over in the UK.  There is only one prominent dealer that I know of Tennents Trains who is not the cheapest.  Most Lionel modellers there seem to buy from the US which gets expensive mainly due to high postage.  Lionel trains are heavy!  Also there is more assortment of track and accessories as well as locos and rolling stock.  They do go wrong and need repair either within the warranty period or later which usually entails shipping back and forth.  Not for the faint hearted!

      Brian.

 

Hi Brian,

 

Thanks for your response. Yes, I appreciate your warnings. I had been put on to Tennent trains by somebody else, but then after speaking to them they told me they are only an authorised service center for Lionel - they don't sell any stock (other than a few pieces of their FasTrack). So, I am indeed expecting to have to import it myself from one of the many US retailers.

 

I have been reading about lots of quality control issues - specifically with the 'Vision line' locos - so that is annoying. I suppose if I get one of those I can at least send it to Tennent trains for servicing. Hopefully the less complex Legacy locos are a touch more reliable! 

 

I suppose I have to really want it to go ahead with this, I've got my UK, and German gauge 0 and 1 well ahead in motion, so I really do need to sort my lack of a US layout. I grew up in Del Mar, CA, so it's also an important part of railways for me.

 

I'll start very small at first, and see how I go.

 

regards,

 

Thomas.

Edited August 23, 2019 by seeseerider

[seeseerider]

10 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I think that there is a Lionel Collectors Group, or something similar, in the UK, and they stage an annual bash somewhere "up north" I think, mind you, it might be "down south" from where you live Thomas. I'd suggest seeking them out and getting the lie of the land, because I concur with Brian that it could get expensive/difficult. EDIT: here they are http://lccuk.org.uk

 

I've just ordered an MTH loco, and ended-up going through their UK (well, Jersey really) distributor, because, by the time postage (over £80 for one loco from the US!!), VAT and import duty were factored-in, they were the same price as buying direct from the US.

 

As regards Lionel quality, the one Lionel loco that is common among UK coarse-scale collectors is their Hall Class, either in GWR or Harry Potter guise. I know many people who have them, and I've never heard anything but praise for both build quality and running quality; I've got one for my children and their friends to drive, and it is a cracker. I think the difference with Vision Line relates to prototype fidelity, rather than build or running quality.

 

 

 

 

Hi there,

 

thank you for your response. I will certainly check out the Collectors Group you mention. They must know about the challenges I'm facing. Nice one on ordering a MTH loco. I'm sure I'll end up having one or two of theirs as well. There are some fantastic comparison reviews of the companies online. They both seem to have strengths that the other does not.

 

I have seen that Jersey distributor online, I wish there was something similar for Lionel. However, as you say, after you start adding up all the VAT and shipping, and then do the same for buying straight from US (where the item prices can be so much lower), it kind of looks like it might be better to import direct anyway.

 

It's good to hear that their Hall class has been well received. I'll try to pick locos which are known to be reliable performers if I can. But gee, I'd love Dapol or Heljan to do us a fine-scale Hall.

 

 

 

[Nearholmer]

I’ve not been clear: my view is that it isn’t worth importing locos direct (track has different issues, because of availability problems in Europe; distributors just don’t carry the full ranges).

 

Example:

 

loco price in US - $400

 

VAT 20% - $80

 

Import duty 2.5% - $10

 

shipping - $94

 

bank ‘non-‘sterling transaction’ charge - $10

 

TOTAL = $594 to import direct

 

Price charged by UK distributor = $580 all inclusive of taxes and shipping.

 

Bank ‘non-sterling transaction charge’ - $10

 

TOTAL = $590 to buy via distributor

 

Which is the same.

 

The advantage of buying via a UK distributor is that the way the law works here, they, rather than the manufacturer, bear the accountability for faults during the warranty period, so if it goes wrong early in its life, you only have to get it to Halesowen (Lionel) or Jersey (MTH), not back to the USA.

 

In fact, I think Jersey law isn’t fully aligned with mainland UK law, because they aren’t in the EU, but the MTH distributor is known to be honourable and behave as if it is.

 

Distributors can make a living while doing all this, because they import a big crate of stuff at the slowest/cheapest freight rates, while as an individual you pay USPO rates, or, if you get impatient, and want is really quick, you pay UPS rates, which make the above look dirt-cheap!

 

There are dodges, like getting a pal to buy it for you in the US, and send it to you as a gift, but even that can cause tangles, because if HMRC spit a discrepancy between declared value for duty and declared value for postal insurance, they can get very insistent, and impound the parcel until you cough-up.

 

Thirty plus years ago, I used sometimes to buy H0 stuff direct from the US, but the weights, and so postal costs, involved were comparatively small, and the exchange rate was massively advantageous for a short time, which it isn’t now.

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Nearholmer

[seeseerider]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

I’ve not been clear: my view is that it isn’t worth importing locos direct (track has different issues, because of availability problems in Europe; distributors just don’t carry the full ranges).

 

The advantage of buying via a UK distributor is that the way the law works here, they, rather than the manufacturer, bear the accountability for faults during the warranty period, so if it goes wrong early in its life, you only have to get it to Halesowen (Lionel) or Jersey (MTH), not back to the USA.

 

 

 

Hello again,

 

the problem is - Tennent trains in Halesowen is not a distributor/retailer - they are only a service center. I've contacted them to confirm this - they will not be able to order any stock for me. There is no European distributor of Lionel that I can find, Tennent also said there isn't any. 

 

[Nearholmer]

Oh dear!!

 

I’ve clearly been misled by the fact that they always seem to have a random selection of bits of Lionel stuff in-stock. In fact, widen that: they seem to have a random selection of all sorts of stuff in-stock!

[seeseerider]

14 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Oh dear!!

 

Indeed Sir!

 

i have notified Tennent that Lionel isn’t accurate in the way they list them on their site.

 

its ok, trains are my life‘s pursuit. I’ve come to find everything else is too easy. I‘ll proceed and find a way. I have a high tolerance of inconvenience when it comes to trains. I’m confident the pain of importing will be worth it to have my beloved General Electrics and Alco’s rumbling around my flat. Haha.

 

I’ll let you know how it goes.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by seeseerider

[jasond]

Is your UK and German modelling 3-rail then?  If not, have you overlooked American 2-rail?  Apart from sharing track at layout building time, there are clubs all over the UK with O-scale 2-rail running and the scale difference means you won't bring bridges down and carve platforms up!

 

The O-scale meet at Winchester on Oct 19 mixes 2- and 3-rail and some of the 3-railers are members of the UK Lionel Club.  There's also a German layout there this year.+

 

As a 2-railer, AtlasO is my favourite O-scale brand, although I've splashed out on brass occasionally and not been disappointed!  If you're sure of what the catalogs are really showing, Lionel and MTH and other 3-rail brands produce good stuff for 2-rail conversion, but that adds to the price of course.  Lionel's PS-1 40ft boxcar is the nicest RTR PS-1 I've seen and been able to afford, just needed wheels and Kadees.  I honestly wasn't going to say it (), but 3-rail nearer the track rules it out for me.

Jason

[seeseerider]

10 hours ago, jasond said:

Is your UK and German modelling 3-rail then?  If not, have you overlooked American 2-rail?  

 

Hi Jason,

 

My UK and German stock is all 2 rail RTR. Actually, I am purposefully going for 3 rail with the American pursuit - for sentimental reasons, if nothing else, American models look and feel best to me running on heavy 3 rail track. It has a certain charm, which, of course, Lionel is a major part of. There is also a far wider selection of RTR US stock on 3 rail - it’s a big deal over there, and seen differently to the European market. I will, however, be sticking with US O scale and not be doing any US O gauge (or O27 etc), I do want to have scale models. Also I really like the look of Lionel’s Legacy command system - it looks really neat (the hardware is awesome) and better than the pains of what I go thru with my Märklin CS3. So that has also influenced me.

 

For uk and German stock, I’m totally with you on 2 rail when it comes to fine scale. 3 rail is strictly for coarse scale I would say over here. That’s also on my to do list by the way - a tinplate o gauge coarse scale layout with Ace trains and Darstaed. One has to have projects to work on!

 

thanks for your tips, and recommendations- Atlas does indeed look great. I’ll look up that event you mention in Winchester.

 

kind regards, Thomas.