atom3624 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Spurred on by just how brilliantly smooth and thus slowly a 'new addition' from a Widnes origin can run, I thought I'd have a go at seeing how a couple of 'old ladies' could run. Hornby 46100 - Royal Scot : YES, I know it's not very steady, but not bad for filming in a cold garage by hand-held mobile 'phone!! Enjoy - I was certainly impressed. Al. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted December 29, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 29, 2019 Impressive. Though I understand no prototype would be driven that slowly for so long, if at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 Exactly, only a few seconds establishing how much steam to put through the cylinders / maintain traction. The old ladies performed brilliantly I reckon! Al. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted December 29, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 29, 2019 Are we not supposed to notice the cheating of an incline surreptitiously placed? Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 I've others going in the reverse direction - no 'cheat' to be honest. Understood a slight 'gravitational resistance' could require slightly more current to establish momentum, but I reckon they performed much better than would have been expected - going down the incline was no different with a 'minor adjustment'. Al. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted December 29, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 29, 2019 I think I have a contender... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 I've referenced this and you, aka 'adb' as I called you in a previous post, within the Hattons' 66 thread - which is what spurred this on. Love the little 'thump' near the start, then it's off again. I do notice a few momentary stalls, 'though it restarts of its own, without assistance within a second or so. I reckon Scottie was more continuous than the Continental locomotive you've indicated, and slower - that's what was impressive for me!! From initial tests, the Hattons one seems to be about the same, 'though I haven't run it in - I may make a 4th radius loop and set it off - both ways, both ways - then try it. I don't reckon any 1:1 locos will be moving that slowly for more than a few metres anyway. Thanks for sharing. Al. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted December 30, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, atom3624 said: I don't reckon any 1:1 locos will be moving that slowly for more than a few metres anyway. What about slow speed fitted locos for MGR type work? Andi Edited December 30, 2019 by Dagworth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul 27 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 10 hours ago, atom3624 said: I've others going in the reverse direction - no 'cheat' to be honest. Understood a slight 'gravitational resistance' could require slightly more current to establish momentum, but I reckon they performed much better than would have been expected - going down the incline was no different with a 'minor adjustment'. Al. What type controller did you use to achieve this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 I only use a HM2000 - haven't 'gone DCC' yet nor have I a Gaugemaster ... Must admit to all, being a 'scientist' I started an experiment this morning, filming alongside a 1m ruler, but I was getting 'occasional temporary stalls' as were visible on 'adb's video, so I didn't see any advantage, so I aborted before I froze - 1.5'C outside and not much warmer inside the garage!! Might try again later! Al. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Compared to the others, this is rushing along.....but it is through pointwork... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 Excellent - I was going to put my 48151 onto the track as well, but thought it would be unfair with the smaller wheels ... Nice close-up video work. Lovely locomotive. It shows just how much Hornby have advanced in the last 30 years or so!! Al. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted December 30, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2019 Personally, I prefer more realistic running. Mike. 3 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted December 30, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2019 10 hours ago, Dagworth said: What about slow speed fitted locos for MGR type work? Andi The MGR had to do 0.5mph which translates to 3mm per second in OO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 I was getting between 50 - 60 mm / minute, or 1 mm / second at the faster end, so Scottie was significantly slower!! Al. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted December 30, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2019 Much as I like slow running, I think the transition between barely moving and “woah spilt my coffee” is the most important bit and often very difficult to replicate, a very smooth acceleration looks real. I think the best I got to it was with an old (although not at the time) Compspeed “momentum” controller, if you had the momentum turn all the way up (or is that down?) it took for ever to get going, looked great. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 Could be wrong, obviously, but didn't the Battlespace TurboCar have a 4-blade prop? I vaguely remember my brother's over 45 years ago - brilliant fun!! So much so that our dad fitted a cage around it!! Al. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 As mentioned 18-23 secs in the video....... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 Thanks, I was right, just had the sound turned down. Unusual to see the Rocket 'by name and nature' - >70mph I reckon. Lovely track!! Al. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 30, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2019 IMHO, with which you are all entitled and invited to disagree with, two factors mitigate against slow smooth running in 4mm scale RTR model railway steam outline mechs, and diesel/electric outline to a lesser extent. Firstly, despite no longer being ridiculously fast and impossible to control below a scale 20mph or so (I reckon Smokey Joe original mech would outrun Battle Space Turbo Car any day), they are still too highly geared, and secondly the controllers are too 'reactive' and would be improved with geared knobs. I can drive my trains realistically with gentle acceleration or deceleration by making very gentle and fine adjustments to a knob on a Gaugemaster HH which is the best DC controller I've ever had, but it is a skill developed over many years to do it 'properly'. I estimate speed with mental (sometimes voiced!) chuff chuff chuff chuffs, 4 per revolution of driving wheels as I model GW, and 2 ts ts prdw from the vacuum pump for deceleration. It is not a matter of simply turning the knob gently at an even rate, because there is a point at which the motor will overcome friction in the gearing and motion at which the loco will surge forward if you don't watch it, and a further point at which it will be retarded, then surge again, as it picks up the load of the train. This requires skill and close observation of the movement to overcome, and of course you don't want to eliminate it entirely as real locos exhibit such behaviour as well for the same reasons. It is one of the reasons I am content with DC control. When I built kits with better gear ratios, standardising on 40:1 for passenger, 50:1 for goods, and 60:1 for mineral and shunting with Romford 5-pole motors, controlling them was much easier even with crude controllers and there was less obvious 'cogging' at very low speeds, tending to prove my point about gearing. A further problem with DC control is of course that the best slow running controlled performances take place at the lowest voltages when motor power is low and pick up problems most likely. Gearing of control knobs would help, but with DCC I doubt if any further development of DC controllers will ever take place despite my belief that there is room for plenty of such. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, The Johnster said: IMHO, with which you are all entitled and invited to disagree with, two factors mitigate against slow smooth running in 4mm scale RTR model railway steam outline mechs, and diesel/electric outline to a lesser extent. Firstly, despite no longer being ridiculously fast and impossible to control below a scale 20mph or so (I reckon Smokey Joe original mech would outrun Battle Space Turbo Car any day), they are still too highly geared, and secondly the controllers are too 'reactive' and would be improved with geared knobs. I can drive my trains realistically with gentle acceleration or deceleration by making very gentle and fine adjustments to a knob on a Gaugemaster HH which is the best DC controller I've ever had, but it is a skill developed over many years to do it 'properly'. I estimate speed with mental (sometimes voiced!) chuff chuff chuff chuffs, 4 per revolution of driving wheels as I model GW, and 2 ts ts prdw from the vacuum pump for deceleration. It is not a matter of simply turning the knob gently at an even rate, because there is a point at which the motor will overcome friction in the gearing and motion at which the loco will surge forward if you don't watch it, and a further point at which it will be retarded, then surge again, as it picks up the load of the train. This requires skill and close observation of the movement to overcome, and of course you don't want to eliminate it entirely as real locos exhibit such behaviour as well for the same reasons. It is one of the reasons I am content with DC control. When I built kits with better gear ratios, standardising on 40:1 for passenger, 50:1 for goods, and 60:1 for mineral and shunting with Romford 5-pole motors, controlling them was much easier even with crude controllers and there was less obvious 'cogging' at very low speeds, tending to prove my point about gearing. A further problem with DC control is of course that the best slow running controlled performances take place at the lowest voltages when motor power is low and pick up problems most likely. Gearing of control knobs would help, but with DCC I doubt if any further development of DC controllers will ever take place despite my belief that there is room for plenty of such. I'm going to be experimenting with low friction very heavy locomotives that have current limiting control Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 30, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2019 If these are British steam outline 4mm, keep us informed of progress, Andy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted December 30, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2019 Depleted uranium is expensive though! Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted December 30, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2019 But with a density of 19.1 g/cm3 it will add great weight to the model. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul80 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 I had a Graham Farish Class 14 that I once timed and it took 20 minutes to cover 12 inches, not bad for something so light. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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