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How Slow can you Go? ... Bit of Fun.


atom3624
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Spurred on by just how brilliantly smooth and thus slowly a 'new addition' from a Widnes origin can run, I thought I'd have a go at seeing how a couple of 'old ladies' could run.

 

Hornby 46100 - Royal Scot :  

 

 

 

YES, I know it's not very steady, but not bad for filming in a cold garage by hand-held mobile 'phone!!

 

Enjoy - I was certainly impressed.

 

Al.

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I've others going in the reverse direction - no 'cheat' to be honest.

 

Understood a slight 'gravitational resistance' could require slightly more current to establish momentum, but I reckon they performed much better than would have been expected - going down the incline was no different with a 'minor adjustment'.

 

Al.

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I've referenced this and you, aka 'adb' as I called you in a previous post, within the Hattons' 66 thread - which is what spurred this on.

 

Love the little 'thump' near the start, then it's off again.

I do notice a few momentary stalls, 'though it restarts of its own, without assistance within a second or so.

 

I reckon Scottie was more continuous than the Continental locomotive you've indicated, and slower - that's what was impressive for me!!

From initial tests, the Hattons one seems to be about the same, 'though I haven't run it in - I may make a 4th radius loop and set it off - both ways, both ways - then try it.

 

I don't reckon any 1:1 locos will be moving that slowly for more than a few metres anyway.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Al.

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2 hours ago, atom3624 said:

 

 

I don't reckon any 1:1 locos will be moving that slowly for more than a few metres anyway.

 

 

What about slow speed fitted locos for MGR type work?

 

Andi

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10 hours ago, atom3624 said:

I've others going in the reverse direction - no 'cheat' to be honest.

 

Understood a slight 'gravitational resistance' could require slightly more current to establish momentum, but I reckon they performed much better than would have been expected - going down the incline was no different with a 'minor adjustment'.

 

Al.

What type controller did you use to achieve this.

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I only use a HM2000 - haven't 'gone DCC' yet nor have I a Gaugemaster ...

 

Must admit to all, being a 'scientist' I started an experiment this morning, filming alongside a 1m ruler, but I was getting 'occasional temporary stalls' as were visible on 'adb's video, so I didn't see any advantage, so I aborted before I froze - 1.5'C outside and not much warmer inside the garage!!

 

Might try again later!

 

Al.

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Excellent - I was going to put my 48151 onto the track as well, but thought it would be unfair with the smaller wheels ...

 

Nice close-up video work. Lovely locomotive.

 

It shows just how much Hornby have advanced in the last 30 years or so!!

 

Al.

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Much as I like slow running, I think the transition between barely moving and “woah spilt my coffee” is the most important bit and often very difficult to replicate, a very smooth acceleration looks real.

 

I think the best I got to it was with an old (although not at the time) Compspeed “momentum” controller, if you had the momentum turn all the way up (or is that down?) it took for ever to get going, looked great.

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IMHO, with which you are all entitled and invited to disagree with, two factors mitigate against slow smooth running in 4mm scale RTR model railway steam outline mechs, and diesel/electric outline to a lesser extent.  Firstly, despite no longer being ridiculously fast and impossible to control below a scale 20mph or so (I reckon Smokey Joe original mech would outrun Battle Space Turbo Car any day), they are still too highly geared, and secondly the controllers are too 'reactive' and would be improved with geared knobs.  I can drive my trains realistically with gentle acceleration or deceleration by making very gentle and fine adjustments to a knob on a Gaugemaster HH which is the best DC controller I've ever had, but it is a skill developed over many years to do it 'properly'.

 

I estimate speed with mental (sometimes voiced!) chuff chuff chuff chuffs, 4 per revolution of driving wheels as I model GW, and 2 ts ts prdw from the vacuum pump for deceleration.  It is not a matter of simply turning the knob gently at an even rate, because there is a point at which the motor will overcome friction in the gearing and motion at which the loco will surge forward if you don't watch it, and a further point at which it will be retarded, then surge again, as it picks up the load of the train.  This requires skill and close observation of the movement to overcome, and of course you don't want to eliminate it entirely as real locos exhibit such behaviour as well for the same reasons.  It is one of the reasons I am content with DC control.

 

When I built kits with better gear ratios, standardising on 40:1 for passenger, 50:1 for goods, and 60:1 for mineral and shunting with Romford 5-pole motors, controlling them was much easier even with crude controllers and there was less obvious 'cogging' at very low speeds, tending to prove my point about gearing.  A further problem with DC control is of course that the best slow running controlled performances take place at the lowest voltages when motor power is low and pick up problems most likely.  Gearing of control knobs would help, but with DCC I doubt if any further development of DC controllers will ever take place despite my belief that there is room for plenty of such.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

IMHO, with which you are all entitled and invited to disagree with, two factors mitigate against slow smooth running in 4mm scale RTR model railway steam outline mechs, and diesel/electric outline to a lesser extent.  Firstly, despite no longer being ridiculously fast and impossible to control below a scale 20mph or so (I reckon Smokey Joe original mech would outrun Battle Space Turbo Car any day), they are still too highly geared, and secondly the controllers are too 'reactive' and would be improved with geared knobs.  I can drive my trains realistically with gentle acceleration or deceleration by making very gentle and fine adjustments to a knob on a Gaugemaster HH which is the best DC controller I've ever had, but it is a skill developed over many years to do it 'properly'.

 

I estimate speed with mental (sometimes voiced!) chuff chuff chuff chuffs, 4 per revolution of driving wheels as I model GW, and 2 ts ts prdw from the vacuum pump for deceleration.  It is not a matter of simply turning the knob gently at an even rate, because there is a point at which the motor will overcome friction in the gearing and motion at which the loco will surge forward if you don't watch it, and a further point at which it will be retarded, then surge again, as it picks up the load of the train.  This requires skill and close observation of the movement to overcome, and of course you don't want to eliminate it entirely as real locos exhibit such behaviour as well for the same reasons.  It is one of the reasons I am content with DC control.

 

When I built kits with better gear ratios, standardising on 40:1 for passenger, 50:1 for goods, and 60:1 for mineral and shunting with Romford 5-pole motors, controlling them was much easier even with crude controllers and there was less obvious 'cogging' at very low speeds, tending to prove my point about gearing.  A further problem with DC control is of course that the best slow running controlled performances take place at the lowest voltages when motor power is low and pick up problems most likely.  Gearing of control knobs would help, but with DCC I doubt if any further development of DC controllers will ever take place despite my belief that there is room for plenty of such.  

 

 

I'm going to be experimenting with low friction very heavy locomotives that have current limiting control

 

 

 

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