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the wall
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Hi everybody :good_mini:

 

I need help with my track, i have 3 ovals and a siding/fiddleyard what i'm doing at the moments have one controller for the 2 outer ovals and another controller for the inner oval and the siding, this gives me the option to have 2 trains running independently, what i would like to do is still have this option but also have the option to use one controller to have the train from the outer oval onto the inner oval and vice versa, i will try to attach a sketch of my track if you could tell me where to put link wires, power and or insulating fish plates.

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Welcome to the forum.

 

The simplest way to drive a train from your outer circuits to your inner circuits is simply to set both controllers to the same speed setting and drive the train through the crossover.  The downside of this is that you need to ensure that the speed and direction is set correctly on both controllers, otherwise the train will speed up, slow down or jump back and forward at the crossover.   

 

The step up from this is to use what is known as 'cab control'.  With cab control you wire each circuit through a Double Throw switch.  The common goes to the track with the left and right positions going to your two controllers.  This means that if the switch is set to the left, then your left controller is connected to the track circuit and if it's set to the right, then your right controller is connected to the track.  For the layout above you would have four switches, one for each coloured circuit and you could use either controller on each section.  If you are using what is known as 'common return' wiring then you only need Single Pole switches, but otherwise you'll need Double Pole switches.  You'll see these sold as, for example, DPDT meaning Double Pole Double Throw.  Double Pole means that you are switching both wires and Double Throw means that there is two positions (which is what you need for two controllers).

 

With regards insulated rail joiners, the number of these that you require depends on whether you are using live frog or dead frog points (Electrofrog and Insulfrog in Peco speak).  Assuming you are using Insulfrog points, then you'll only need insulated rail joiners in the centre of each of your crossovers to create your four separate track circuits.  However, if you are using Electrofrog points, then you'll need to completely isolate your frogs (more correctly called common crossings).

 

With regards track feeds, you should always feed points from the 'toe' end of the point, which is the one where the point blades are.  The other end with the two divergent tracks is normally referred to as the 'heel'.

 

Brian Lambert's website is usually highlighted as a good resource for beginners - which might help with your understanding - https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical_Page_1.html

Edited by Dungrange
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48 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

Brian Lambert's website is usually highlighted as a good resource for beginners - which might help with your understanding - https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical_Page_1.html

 

In addition to which Ian Morton's excellent and easily-understood book "Aspects of Modelling - Railway Electrics" is a sound investment.  Not sure if it is currently in print but if not the likes of Amazon could be helpful in locating a copy.  

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16 hours ago, Dungrange said:

   

 

The step up from this is to use what is known as 'cab control'.  With cab control you wire each circuit through a Double Throw switch.  The common goes to the track with the left and right positions going to your two controllers.  This means that if the switch is set to the left, then your left controller is connected to the track circuit and if it's set to the right, then your right controller is connected to the track.  For the layout above you would have four switches, one for each coloured circuit and you could use either controller on each section.  If you are using what is known as 'common return' wiring then you only need Single Pole switches, but otherwise you'll need Double Pole switches.  You'll see these sold as, for example, DPDT meaning Double Pole Double Throw.  Double Pole means that you are switching both wires and Double Throw means that there is two positions (which is what you need for two controllers).

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply i will be buying some reading material, is there any chance somebody could indicate where to put connections using my diagram to give me an idea.

 

Thank Dungrange for the in depth instructions but i'm afraid this section went straight over my head , electric connections is not my strong point:(

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Okay, let's try a diagram.  You will need four pairs of feeds, which is probably what you have at the moment.  I've shown these with red and black triangles.  The important point is that they are located at the 'toe' end of your turnouts or points.

 

You'll also need insulated rail joiners in both rails at the crossovers.  I have shown these using blue bars across the track that needs to be isolated.  That is a total of eight plastic joiners to separate your four track sections.

 

Now if you buy four Double Pole Double Throw (DPDT) switches (these can be toggle switches or slide switches depending on your preference), you will find that they have six terminals on the bottom.  Run two wires between Feed 1 and the centre pair of terminals on DPDT 1.  Run two wires between Feed 2 and the centre pair of terminals on DPDT 2.  Run two wires between Feed 3 and the centre pair of terminals on DPDT 3 and finally two wires between Feed 4 and DPDT 4.

 

Then wire the left pair of terminals on all four DPDT switches to the output from Controller B and wire the right pair of terminals on all four DPDT switches to the output from Controller A.

 

To operate your central sidings, you then use switch DPDT 1.  If it is to the left, then you use Controller B to drive and if it is to the right then you use Controller A to drive.  DTDT 2 will control which controller to use for your inner circuit, DPDT 3 will control which controller is connected to your middle circuit and DPDT 4 will control which controller is connected to your outer circuit.  What this means is that you can use either controller to drive anywhere on the layout just by selecting which controller controls each section.

 

image.png.ddbd0f6ef3f79d266b5790c51eb520f7.png

 

Is that any clearer?

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My chosen solution is a two pole rotary switch for each line, One for Brown, One for Blue, one for Green one for Red.      Each one has its two output contacts (the ones in the middle) connected to its own track and one pair of contacts on the outer ring of contacts connected to Controller A and another to Controller B. Up to 6 controllers can be connected to the rotary switch but only one controller can be switched to one track at a time. 

It works for me, 35 plus years with no failures.    It avoids weird common return back feeds and means one controller can be connected to all 4 circuits enabling you to run from inside to outside non stop.   The idea of switching both controllers to the same speed doesn't work with a lot of locos, Hornby Tender drive and Lima Diesels being particularly bad.

Photo shows a panel I made 35 years ago there is a fourth rotary around the corner for Down yard,  A,B,C or D controllers can operate Inner Main.   Also B,A,C and D can operate Outer Main and A,B,C or D can be connected to both  inner and outer at the same time. 

DSCN4151.jpg

Edited by DavidCBroad
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