spikey Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Is there a way to tell simply by observation whether a Bachmann pannier has the older sprung middle axle chassis or the later type with proper wheel bearings? To clarify, I mean without any dismantling, and without looking up the part/running number. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Only had the earlier version with the very desireable sprung centre axle, wasn't aware of a later type. A major visible flaw with the earlier model is the combined outside brake pull rod and shunter's step - did that get corrected on the revised mechanism? If so it was so heavyweight that it should be easy to spot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 Hmmm. The question arose after I was talking to a bloke who reckoned the "new chassis" was a retrograde step, but I'm now beginning to wonder if perhaps there actually isn't a "new chassis" ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) This would probably be the same bloke that on zero evidence describes motors as coreless and the like? Not too long ago I encountered 'the bloke' expounding on Bachmann having fitted brass bearing collars on the axles of all their locos. When challenged on this opinion (bloke speak = fact) he pointed out the pick up wipers behind the flanges. Someone, anyone! If you should happen to own the most recently produced version of Bachmann's 57/87xx pannier can you take a look and see whether it still has the sprung centre axle and the other two axles running in cutouts in the Mazak block; or if it has been revised to have the axles in brass collars? (My most recent Bachmann loco purchases have been new introductions to their range, and have the driven axles running in brass collars. But to date I have yet to see any revisions to earlier introductions where the axles ran in the Mazak block, to include this feature.) Edited February 25, 2020 by 34theletterbetweenB&D to correct a fumble finger spelling error Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Could this transition coincide with packaging - for example brass bushings ('bearings') started when packaged in the ice-cube packaging? Al. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted February 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 25, 2020 I’d ask which Pannier type he’s referring to. The 57xx family low/high cab variants have the centre axle sprung, this being the replacement for the split chassis ‘Mainline’ design. Easy way to check these at 1,000 yards is, can you see the ends of the driving axle. If yes it’s a 2nd generation chassis. If not it’s a split chassis. The 64xx’s have square phosphor bronze bearings and the running qualities of these are not as good as the 2nd Gen 57xx ‘family’ chassis. The pick ups on the 64xx’s seem more prone to poor adjustment, so that’s first port of call for indifferent running. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2020 I have 5 of them, one running (incorrectly) on a new bought 2 years ago 64xx chassis. The other 4 are one new and 3 s/h purchases in the last 3 years and all have the sprung centre axle and drive to the rear axle. The 64xx chassis has no compensation at all so far as I can tell and, another major difference, drives to the centre axle. All run well enough, and I have had no trouble with the 64xx pickups, but this mech definitely took longer to run in to achieve the smooth starts and stops it can now deliver. The compensated chassis are superb, though, even straight out of the box. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 OK ... so have I got this right? 57xx are rear-wheel-drive and have sprung centre axle. 64xx are centre axle drive and are unsprung, but they have bushes. Therefore the way to tell the chassis apart even if the bodies have been swopped is simply to check for the presence of the semi-cylindrical bulge under the centre axle . If it's there, the chassis is a 64xx. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2020 Yes, but earlier 57xx from Bachmann had a redesigned split chassis with a can motor and screw/worm drive. I believe the current rear axle drive/sprung centre axle mech was introduced with the 8750. So it is possible to source this earlier type of chassis, designed to use the older body tooling inherited from Mainline and Replica. The giveaway is the couplings; current chassis will have NEM types, and models derived from the Mainline /Replica 57xx will have the larger Mainline type. S/h prices should reflect this, but sometimes don’t! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 36 minutes ago, The Johnster said: Yes ... I am obliged to you, sir. One final question if I may - is it a lot of work to fit a later (i.e. post split chassis) 57xx body to a 64xx (centre drive) chassis? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2020 It’s fiddly but not difficult. Main issue is that rear coupling needs moving backwards slightly, and you have to fabricate a base for a Parkside NEM mount. The fixing screws do not align properly with the holes; my bodge is to use pound shop superglue which holds the body securely to the chassis but can be split easily with a bit of gentle brutality from an ild screwdriver. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted February 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2020 Are you observing from afar or in person? My first thought was push the middle wheelset and see if they move... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2020 Yes, you can feel the spring pressure as the axle deflects by about 2mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted February 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, spikey said: I am obliged to you, sir. One final question if I may - is it a lot of work to fit a later (i.e. post split chassis) 57xx body to a 64xx (centre drive) chassis? Bare in mind the wheelbases are different between the two classes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted February 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) I can’t think of a sensible reason why you’d put a 64xx chassis underneath a 57xx Pannier. The wheel bases are different, so wheels will never line up with the splashers, and you’ll have an engine that looks wrong because the chassis is incorrect. The best solution is buy a contemporary or recent 57xx as that will have the correct chassis for a 57xx. If you want a 64xx Pannier buy one of those, the chassis is correct. @57xx obviously writing simultaneously as I... Edited February 25, 2020 by PMP 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 10 hours ago, PMP said: I can’t think of a sensible reason why you’d put a 64xx chassis underneath a 57xx Pannier ... Unless of course your nephew's lad dropped his 64XX, it suffered terminal body damage but the chassis is OK, and I have a 57XX body which is surplus to requirements ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 How about phoning Bachmann, explaining the body damage and seeing if you can obtain a replacement body for the 64XX. The wheel spacing will look odd. Indeed if the 64xx wheels will fit under the 57xx spasher at all. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted February 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, spikey said: Unless of course your nephew's lad dropped his 64XX, it suffered terminal body damage but the chassis is OK, and I have a 57XX body which is surplus to requirements ... But the wheel spacing is still wrong, and shortening the 64xx’s chassis to fit into the 57, making new body mounts as well is a good deal of work. I’d look again at repairing the original body, or seeing as above if Bachmann might have a spare. It’s probably easier to sell the 64xx’s chassis on eBay either complete or as spares, and use the money to buy a correct chassis for the 57xx. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bachmann-GWR-64XX-PANNIER-TANK-GREEN-LOCO-BODY-ONLY-No-1/143536792789?hash=item216b75a4d5:g:oTgAAOSwzlFdYFYf https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bachmann-64xx-chassis-OO/193227254431?hash=item2cfd3dea9f:g:9MsAAOSwR8hd3A3H Edited February 26, 2020 by PMP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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