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How to tell pannier chassis type without dismantling?


spikey
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Is there a way to tell simply by observation whether a Bachmann pannier has the older sprung middle axle chassis or the later type with proper wheel bearings?  To clarify, I mean without any dismantling, and without looking up the part/running number.

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Hmmm.  The question arose after I was talking to a bloke who reckoned the "new chassis" was a retrograde step, but I'm now beginning to wonder if perhaps there actually isn't a "new chassis" ...

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This would probably be the same bloke that on zero evidence describes motors as coreless and the like? Not too long ago I encountered 'the bloke' expounding on Bachmann having fitted brass bearing collars on the axles of all their locos. When challenged on this opinion (bloke speak = fact) he pointed out the pick up wipers behind the flanges.

 

Someone, anyone! If you should happen to own the most recently produced version of Bachmann's 57/87xx pannier can you take a look and see whether it still has the sprung centre axle and the other two axles running in cutouts in the Mazak block; or if it has been revised to have the axles in brass collars? (My most recent Bachmann loco purchases have been new introductions to their range, and have the driven axles running in brass collars. But to date I have yet to see any revisions to earlier introductions where the axles ran in the Mazak block, to include this feature.)

Edited by 34theletterbetweenB&D
to correct a fumble finger spelling error
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I’d ask which Pannier type he’s referring to.

 

The 57xx family low/high cab variants have the centre axle sprung, this being the replacement for the split chassis ‘Mainline’ design. Easy way to check these at 1,000 yards is, can you see the ends of the driving axle. If yes it’s a 2nd generation chassis. If not it’s a split chassis.

 

The 64xx’s have square phosphor bronze bearings and the running qualities of these are not as good as the 2nd Gen 57xx ‘family’ chassis. The pick ups on the 64xx’s seem more prone to poor adjustment, so that’s first port of call for indifferent running.

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I have 5 of them, one running (incorrectly) on a new bought 2 years ago 64xx chassis. The other 4 are one new and 3 s/h purchases in the last 3 years and all have the sprung centre axle and drive to the rear axle.  The 64xx chassis has no compensation at all so far as I can tell and, another major difference, drives to the centre axle.  All run well enough, and I have had no trouble with the 64xx pickups, but this mech definitely took longer to run in to achieve the smooth starts and stops it can now deliver.  The compensated chassis are superb, though, even straight out of the box.  

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OK ... so have I got this right?

 

57xx are rear-wheel-drive and have sprung centre axle.

64xx are centre axle drive and are unsprung, but they have bushes. 

Therefore the way to tell the chassis apart even if the bodies have been swopped is simply to check for the presence of the semi-cylindrical bulge under the centre axle .  If it's there, the chassis is a 64xx.

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Yes, but earlier 57xx from Bachmann had a redesigned split chassis with a can motor and screw/worm drive.  I believe the current rear axle drive/sprung centre axle mech was introduced with the 8750.  So it is possible to source this earlier type of chassis, designed to use the older body tooling inherited from Mainline and Replica.  The giveaway is the couplings; current chassis will have NEM types, and models derived from the Mainline /Replica 57xx will have the larger Mainline type.  
 

S/h prices should reflect this, but sometimes don’t!

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36 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Yes ...

I am obliged to you, sir.  One final question if I may - is it a lot of work to fit a later (i.e. post split chassis) 57xx body to  a 64xx (centre drive) chassis?

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It’s fiddly but not difficult.  Main issue is that rear coupling needs moving backwards slightly, and you have to fabricate a base for a Parkside NEM mount. The fixing screws do not align properly with the holes; my bodge is to use pound shop superglue which holds the body securely to the chassis but can be split easily with a bit of gentle brutality from an ild screwdriver. 

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1 hour ago, spikey said:

I am obliged to you, sir.  One final question if I may - is it a lot of work to fit a later (i.e. post split chassis) 57xx body to  a 64xx (centre drive) chassis?

 

Bare in mind the wheelbases are different between the two classes.

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I can’t think of a sensible reason why you’d put a 64xx chassis underneath a 57xx  Pannier. The wheel bases are different, so wheels will never line up with the splashers, and you’ll have an engine that looks wrong because the chassis is incorrect. 

The best solution is buy a contemporary or recent 57xx as that will have the correct chassis for a 57xx.

If you want a 64xx Pannier buy one of those, the chassis is correct.

 

@57xx obviously writing simultaneously as I...

Edited by PMP
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10 hours ago, PMP said:

I can’t think of a sensible reason why you’d put a 64xx chassis underneath a 57xx  Pannier ...

 

Unless of course your nephew's lad dropped his 64XX, it suffered terminal body damage but the chassis is OK, and I have a 57XX body which is surplus to requirements ...

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6 hours ago, spikey said:

 

Unless of course your nephew's lad dropped his 64XX, it suffered terminal body damage but the chassis is OK, and I have a 57XX body which is surplus to requirements ...


But the wheel spacing is still wrong, and shortening the 64xx’s chassis to fit into the 57, making new body mounts as well is a good deal of work. I’d look again at repairing the original body, or seeing as above if Bachmann might have a spare. It’s probably easier to sell the 64xx’s chassis on eBay either complete or as spares, and use the money to buy a correct chassis for the 57xx. 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bachmann-GWR-64XX-PANNIER-TANK-GREEN-LOCO-BODY-ONLY-No-1/143536792789?hash=item216b75a4d5:g:oTgAAOSwzlFdYFYf

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bachmann-64xx-chassis-OO/193227254431?hash=item2cfd3dea9f:g:9MsAAOSwR8hd3A3H

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