RMweb Gold TravisM Posted April 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2020 (edited) I’ve been modelling since I was a mere sprog, built, rebuilt and demolished layouts but I’ve never been entirely happy with them. I’m now 60, serious health and mobility issues and to add insult to injury, I’ve been fighting (and winning) skin cancer. I’ve decided to restart again as if I was a newbie with a simple shelf layout, DCC and from the start, I made the newbie mistake of overthinking that I can build a representation of Peterborough loco inspection point. I did a rough design by laying out lengths of track but I couldn’t get it too look right because it looked too compressed and busy. I had a rethink and now set in a rural location, a single track line with fiddle yards at each end, station, level crossing and loads of trees. It’s basically a representation of my long demolished local station and had the line from Peterborough to Northampton remained open. It will be set in 2018/19 period and services provided by East Midlands Trains Class 153’s, maybe give my Realtrack 156 or Bachmann 158 a run out . Looking for inspiration, practical help and answering my daft questions from time to time Edited April 17, 2020 by jools1959 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 How much room do you have? Am I right to assume its OO gauge? Terminus to Fiddle yard layouts are popular because they only have one Fiddle yard! Through stations need two. In OO that is one foot per Sprinter coach plus point work which for 3 roads with a Y point is around 20" That really eats into your space. Over 10 feet for two fiddle yards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted April 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) This seems like a Layout design topic. Maybe better in that forum. Edited April 18, 2020 by Harlequin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted April 18, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 18, 2020 5 hours ago, Harlequin said: This seems like a Layout design topic. Maybe better in that forum. How do I get this topic moved? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 You can report your post, I think, to the Moderators clicking on the wording at top right of your entry, and just explain you want it moved. They can't check entries in a topic on a regular basis. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 On 17/04/2020 at 12:46, jools1959 said: I’ve been modelling since I was a mere sprog, built, rebuilt and demolished layouts but I’ve never been entirely happy with them. I’m now 60, serious health and mobility issues and to add insult to injury, I’ve been fighting (and winning) skin cancer. I’ve decided to restart again as if I was a newbie with a simple shelf layout, DCC and from the start, I made the newbie mistake of overthinking that I can build a representation of Peterborough loco inspection point. I did a rough design by laying out lengths of track but I couldn’t get it too look right because it looked too compressed and busy. I had a rethink and now set in a rural location, a single track line with fiddle yards at each end, station, level crossing and loads of trees. It’s basically a representation of my long demolished local station and had the line from Peterborough to Northampton remained open. It will be set in 2018/19 period and services provided by East Midlands Trains Class 153’s, maybe give my Realtrack 156 or Bachmann 158 a run out . Looking for inspiration, practical help and answering my daft questions from time to time In addition to the other request for measurements of space, what are you looking to get out of this layout? Is it mainly to run a train back and forth, are you looking for some operational possibilities, or is it the act of building a layout that you find most attractive with running of trains somewhat secondary? You mention a handful of DMU's, is there other stock you have that you would like to run? Your mobility issues, not that you need to get specific on this forum and feel free to not reply, but is there anything that would influence the layout design? Limited reach, need to sit in one place instead of moving around? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted April 18, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 18, 2020 1 hour ago, mdvle said: In addition to the other request for measurements of space, what are you looking to get out of this layout? Is it mainly to run a train back and forth, are you looking for some operational possibilities, or is it the act of building a layout that you find most attractive with running of trains somewhat secondary? You mention a handful of DMU's, is there other stock you have that you would like to run? Your mobility issues, not that you need to get specific on this forum and feel free to not reply, but is there anything that would influence the layout design? Limited reach, need to sit in one place instead of moving around? My main problems are mobility and standing, so ducking under a layout is not practical for me and to be honest, the idea of a shelf layout with a couple of trains trundling past appeals to me. I want to have 3/4 sidings in my fiddle yard at each end, so the same train won’t keep passing by. I think I want to have a fully functioning, well running layout and the scenery looking good and well presented. I kind of want it to be a 3D picture on my wall if that makes any sense? I have a Bachmann Windhoff MPV to run on the layout as well and I’ve not got the room to run loco hauled trains so I’ve created a scenario where there’s a bridge that’s got a weight restriction on it. Okay for units etc, but heavy freight trains are banned though a light engine Colas Class 37 or a Class 66 with a couple of Network Rail JNA “Falcons” or other P. Way wagons might trundle through. I hope that all makes sense and I plan to start laying the roadbed tomorrow and show the results later. Hopefully it will give you an idea of what I’m hoping to achieve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted April 19, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 19, 2020 (edited) On 18/04/2020 at 01:00, DavidCBroad said: How much room do you have? Am I right to assume its OO gauge? Terminus to Fiddle yard layouts are popular because they only have one Fiddle yard! Through stations need two. In OO that is one foot per Sprinter coach plus point work which for 3 roads with a Y point is around 20" That really eats into your space. Over 10 feet for two fiddle yards. Space wise, not much as I was going to use my spare bedroom to put the layout in but, that would either mean me ducking under the layout (not a option) or put a lifting flap in and given my wood butchery skills, not much of a option there either. So that’s why I’ve gone for a shelf layout. The dimensions of the layout are approximately 12ft x 1ft and I plan to lay the roadbed down tomorrow and take pictures of the progress. Edited April 19, 2020 by jools1959 Typo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 If its OO you really don't have room for two Fiddle yards and a station. I would suggest you just try one terminus. It looks like an ideal place for C.J Freezer's famous Minories plan, its a 7ft long 3 platform OO terminus, which would leave 5ft for a fiddle yard. If you don't bother with the overall roof it would allow 3 platforms to show off your DMUs and room to run 3 car trains in and out. You don't need top notch wood butchery skills for duck under, just a talent for bodgery, a Mitre block and a hacksaw. Even the most ham fisted individual can cut wood nicely with a fine tooth hacksaw and a mitre block. A powered chop saw or mitre saw is even more fun. You can cut a piece of wood accurately to the wrong angle and length in a couple of seconds with a power saw whereas it would take minutes with a hand saw. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted April 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 19, 2020 Hi Jools, Why only 1ft wide? A round the room plan allows trains to circulate unattended, which can be very therapeutic, and of course the one fiddle yard serves both ends of the scene so in a sense it’s more space-efficient. A lifting flap shouldn’t be that difficult to engineer. Lots of people have made them over the years. I suggest designing something on paper or computer before you start building. It will save a lot of time and effort in the long term and you’re more likely to get something you’re happy with first time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted April 19, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 19, 2020 7 hours ago, Harlequin said: Hi Jools, Why only 1ft wide? A round the room plan allows trains to circulate unattended, which can be very therapeutic, and of course the one fiddle yard serves both ends of the scene so in a sense it’s more space-efficient. A lifting flap shouldn’t be that difficult to engineer. Lots of people have made them over the years. I suggest designing something on paper or computer before you start building. It will save a lot of time and effort in the long term and you’re more likely to get something you’re happy with first time. Hi Phil, The layout was going to go in the spare bedroom but for various reasons it’s no longer available, so I had to rethink my options. It’s only 1ft wide because it’s going to live in the living room, sitting on top of the book cases I’ve got. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted April 19, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 19, 2020 9 hours ago, DavidCBroad said: If its OO you really don't have room for two Fiddle yards and a station. I would suggest you just try one terminus. It looks like an ideal place for C.J Freezer's famous Minories plan, its a 7ft long 3 platform OO terminus, which would leave 5ft for a fiddle yard. If you don't bother with the overall roof it would allow 3 platforms to show off your DMUs and room to run 3 car trains in and out. You don't need top notch wood butchery skills for duck under, just a talent for bodgery, a Mitre block and a hacksaw. Even the most ham fisted individual can cut wood nicely with a fine tooth hacksaw and a mitre block. A powered chop saw or mitre saw is even more fun. You can cut a piece of wood accurately to the wrong angle and length in a couple of seconds with a power saw whereas it would take minutes with a hand saw. I did consider the Minories layout and even though I really like it, l wanted to get away from point motors etc. It’s just one less headache to worry about. I’m going for the “KISS” principal (Keep It Simple Stupid), so minimal electrics. I might drill the holes for point motors so they in theory they can be installed at a later date but as I’m using DCC, do I buy the motors which are DCC fitted? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 18 minutes ago, jools1959 said: I did consider the Minories layout and even though I really like it, l wanted to get away from point motors etc. It’s just one less headache to worry about. I’m going for the “KISS” principal (Keep It Simple Stupid), so minimal electrics. I might drill the holes for point motors so they in theory they can be installed at a later date but as I’m using DCC, do I buy the motors which are DCC fitted? Lots of ways to retrofit point motors. We have some fitted 30 years ago which have never been connected up because it easier to change points by hand. The latest surface mount Peco might be the answer. Currently I am fitting any old point motors, Peco, Triang etc operating points remotely through piano wire running in brass tubes on the baseboard surface. Key thing for me is to get something running or my enthusiasm will quickly evaporate 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted April 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 19, 2020 (edited) If you keep the trains short, say 2 coaches/units maximum, use 3-way points in the fiddle yards for space efficiency and try to overlap the scene in front of the fiddle yards to some extent then you might be able to create a nice framed and animated scene on your wall with FYs at both ends. (Could you get just one end to go round a corner onto the adjacent wall, making the layout L shaped??? That would get more length and help one of the FYs be less visible.) For visual interest it would be great if you could drop the land level away from the track somewhere - so don't go making dead-flat baseboards exactly 1ft wide too soon! The trouble with modern trains is that they don't need such interesting track formations and so the on-scene operations are less interesting (IMHO). It would be great to have a loop and/or a siding in the scenic area but it's hard to justify them post-rationalisation. Edited April 19, 2020 by Harlequin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium JDW Posted April 19, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 19, 2020 I like the idea of a "moving picture" type layout along the wall. It might help with space if you reduce one of the fiddle yards to two tracks, which would give you and extra six inches of scenic space. As far as point motors go, I wouldn't bother with DCC ones unless you specifically want to operate them from the DCC controller. I'd just use simple DC electrics, as its generally cheaper, and for just a couple of sets of points there's not going to be any big control panel needed. If they're all in the fiddle yard, surface mount ones could work. I might even be tempted to just have the ones at the 'far' end of the layout motorised, if you intend to operate it from a certain position. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted April 19, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 19, 2020 I’ve just uploaded pictures of the baseboards and progress so far. I’m using Tim Horn “budget” boards which I can highly recommend and as I bought a extra board, it gives me a total layout size of 10’6 x 10 inches. Even though I’ve got points recovered from a previous layout which are in great condition, I like the idea of a 3-way point at each end to save space. Last year I went to the site of the old Elton station and took loads pictures and I’m going to use them to form the rear back scene. I’m also thinking of continuing the scenic pictures on the front boards which hide the fiddle yards, so I’d have one continuous scene. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted April 19, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 19, 2020 Just had a phone call from a friend who’s also a P4 modeller and he’s suggested that I go down that route because I have quite a simple layout with a single track and 3-way at each end in the fiddle yard. I gave it some thought (approximately all of 5 seconds ) but dismissed the idea because having to build points even from kits filled me with dread as I’m not sure my fingers are capable of building them to a high standard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted April 20, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 20, 2020 Had a email from a friend and he liked the pictures of the baseboards. He liked the fact that the system can be easily extended and he asked if Tim does curved baseboards which he doesn’t (at the moment). I’m going to email Tim and ask if he’d consider doing curved sections at a later date and see what he has to say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted April 20, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 20, 2020 Sorry but it’s silly question time. I’ve discovered I’ve got a few lengths of PECO flexitrack with concrete sleepers and was wondering if the line between Peterborough and Northampton had remained open, would it have been upgraded by now with concrete sleepers or would it still be wooden? I tried to remember what was used on the Weymouth line from Castle Cary to Maiden Newton and Dorchester but to be honest, I never really looked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 3 hours ago, jools1959 said: Sorry but it’s silly question time. I’ve discovered I’ve got a few lengths of PECO flexitrack with concrete sleepers and was wondering if the line between Peterborough and Northampton had remained open, would it have been upgraded by now with concrete sleepers or would it still be wooden? Alternately, being a minor line a section was used to test the concrete sleeper concept, thus providing a reasonable excuse to use what you have on hand. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Chedworth MSWJR closed in 1961 had concrete sleepers... See pic from 1958. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted April 22, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 22, 2020 I’ve finally got the rest of my cork roadbed today so I can crack on with the layout. As the layout will be in 3 sections (2 ends and the middle) and movable, I’m trying to figure out how to secure the track at the ends of the boards. In the past, people have used copper cladding but I’m at a loss to know where to buy it, especially in these difficult times or the other idea I thought of was to use screws at the end of the baseboards and solder the track to those. Could someone give me some advice please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 I soldered the rails to screws at the end of the board. Works fine. I added some cosmetic sleepers around it and one painted and ballasted I probably got a better result than I would have from copper clad. You need to take care to maintain the correct gauge, but I guess that's the case whatever you do. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted April 23, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Zomboid said: I soldered the rails to screws at the end of the board. Works fine. I added some cosmetic sleepers around it and one painted and ballasted I probably got a better result than I would have from copper clad. You need to take care to maintain the correct gauge, but I guess that's the case whatever you do. Thanks for that and I think using screws is the way to go as I’ve never liked copper clad sleepers. I’ve got a track gauge so that shouldn’t be a problem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted April 23, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2020 Hi Jools, Do you have a plan you can share with us or are you just winging it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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