Another newbie looking for help

[Harlequin]

8 minutes ago, Chimer said:

If you envisage regularly swapping long rakes of HSTs or other MUs, cassettes do have advantages (as well as perils) when you consider the faff of uncoupling and packing away the old set, then unpacking the new lot and  getting 10 bogies properly re-railed.  I soon got fed up doing this with just a 2-car unit …….

 

Yes, and imagine trying to do that in a semi-hidden fiddle yard...

[Monkey]

20 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

 

Yes, and imagine trying to do that in a semi-hidden fiddle yard...

 

I don't think it'll be a regular thing. For a start, I only own one set at the moment. 

 

Anyway, whats to stop me railing them from the layout and running them into the yard. 

 

Well I've taken the plunge and ordered the materials to knock up some boards. The final board will be the fiddle-yard / traverser or whatever I do, so for now I can make a start with the terminus end and worry about that later. 

 

Does anyone by any chance have the length of a OO 5 car class 800? 

[Zomboid]

19 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Does anyone by any chance have the length of a OO 5 car class 800? 

According to this it's 340mm

https://www.railwaymodelstore.co.uk/Hornby-oo-gauge-train-packs-lner-hitachi-class-800-1-azuma-set-800-104-celebrating-scotland-train-pack-era-11/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-r71BRDuARIsAB7i_QPytYCg3V4yz55fNxlYsoklnOLZZn7y9y5TaRJEnA2IzTPzR15ywl0aAgoVEALw_wcB

 

Presumably that's per vehicle since it doesn't make any sense otherwise, so 1700mm for a 5 car.

 

(Using the lengths you mentioned earlier that compares to 1445mm for a 2+3 and 1750mm for a 2+4).

Edited May 4, 2020 by Zomboid

[Monkey]

1 hour ago, Zomboid said:

According to this it's 340mm

https://www.railwaymodelstore.co.uk/Hornby-oo-gauge-train-packs-lner-hitachi-class-800-1-azuma-set-800-104-celebrating-scotland-train-pack-era-11/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-r71BRDuARIsAB7i_QPytYCg3V4yz55fNxlYsoklnOLZZn7y9y5TaRJEnA2IzTPzR15ywl0aAgoVEALw_wcB

 

Presumably that's per vehicle since it doesn't make any sense otherwise, so 1700mm for a 5 car.

 

(Using the lengths you mentioned earlier that compares to 1445mm for a 2+3 and 1750mm for a 2+4).

Thanks! 

 

Oooh, that's complicated things a bit. 

[Monkey]

So two deliveries of materials later and I have two of my three boards made up. The third one is the traverser, which I'm actually enjoying building rather than dreading it as I was initially. 

 

 

[Zomboid]

So have you decided on what you're putting on the boards?

[Monkey]

On 07/05/2020 at 09:42, Zomboid said:

So have you decided on what you're putting on the boards?

 

Pretty much a direct rip-off of Phil's design, with extended platforms and a slip to allow access to Platform 0.

 

There won't be room for anything else once we're out of the the throat but thats ok, I'm thinking modular and can put more boards in between the station and the traverser at a later date. I have more than enough to play with for now. 

 

I don't know how I'm going to allocate the upper yards. I'm thinking a small NR / BR (depending on the era) depot. Or perhaps changing the layout a little to (in the future) run a XC route from platform 3.

[Harlequin]

Just so you're aware: The Pacific Terminus throat uses large radius turnouts and large Ys to reduce the effects of the reverse curves that are inherent in any true Minories formation. Inserting a Streamline slip will make some of the routes through it much more abrupt.

 

Can you post an image?

 

[Monkey]

Here's what I've got

[Flying Pig]

10 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Here's what I've got

 

Ok, since this has now become a Minories thread, you may want to do some background reading This is the result of a search for topics containing the word 'minories' in the title, just in the Layout and Track Design forum.  As you can see, it's a well-discussed subject:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/search/&q=minories&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=66&search_in=titles

 

I think you might find the following threads particularly useful:

 

 

 

 

[Harlequin]

10 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Here's what I've got

 

Thanks... The routes in to three of the platforms have to turn though a slip on first entry to the scene, which is a bit awkward, and the inbound and outbound lines don't remain parallel - they split apart and then start to converge, which also seems awkward to me.

Are the radii of the two elbow turns between the slips OK?

 

[Monkey]

55 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

 

Thanks... The routes in to three of the platforms have to turn though a slip on first entry to the scene, which is a bit awkward, and the inbound and outbound lines don't remain parallel - they split apart and then start to converge, which also seems awkward to me.

Are the radii of the two elbow turns between the slips OK?

 

 

I'm showing my naivety here, but why are they awkward? Also, I have no idea about the radii of the elbow turns, I just connected it up using flexitrack on scarm and presumed it would work. 

 

It could probably do with tidying a little, but that was to give you the gist of my idea. The two routes to platform 0 was just a nice to have, I can lose the idea if you don't think it works. 

 

What I'd really like to do is work out a second route out of platform 3 for my potential XC route. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Monkey

[Harlequin]

58 minutes ago, Monkey said:

 

I'm showing my naivety here, but why are they awkward? Also, I have no idea about the radii of the elbow turns, I just connected it up using flexitrack on scarm and presumed it would work. 

 

It could probably do with tidying a little, but that was to give you the gist of my idea. The two routes to platform 0 was just a nice to have, I can lose the idea if you don't think it works. 

 

What I'd really like to do is work out a second route out of platform 3 for my potential XC route. 

 

"Awkward" is a nebulous designer's term but in this case it means: Halfway between the fiddle yard and the platforms, your stock will be running at the highest speed you can achieve on your layout and right at that point it encounters the smallest radius turn in the throat.

 

[Chimer]

3 hours ago, Harlequin said:

 

Are the radii of the two elbow turns between the slips OK?

 

 

Fwiw I wondered too, but have made it work (in XtrackCad) with that little curve at 42" radius and the straight above it around 5.3" long.  The divergence of the tracks is due to one of the two points in the crossover above the second slip being a "Y" (6 degree divergence) and the other a long left (12 degrees).

[Monkey]

Apologies for not replying for a couple of weeks, I've been busy in real-life.

 

I've had a rethink, trying to maximise the room that I have available and to avoid the traverser. I've come up with the following which I'd really like people's views on whether it works, and also any pointers or changes to make it operationally plausible. 

 

I decided I can use the back wall of the garage too, giving me a maximum space of about 6000mm x 2010mm in an L-Shape. I wanted to keep it 2ft wide.

 

I'll have a 1829mm x 607mm board tucked into the top right as you look at it, so all the pointwork fits on one board.

 

I've managed to squeeze 3 x platforms that are long enough to accommodate the class 800 on my wishlist, as well as a shorter siding and bay platform, with nothing tighter than a 2nd radius curve (mostly less). The Hornby platforms are there just to help me visualise it.

 

If this works, it should give me enough length along the top wall to still have something of a layout and a hidden fiddle yard.

 

????

[Chimer]

All a bit nit-picky, but as you asked …..

 

Assuming it's a double track approach, I note you can't arrive directly into the short platform.  But I guess you could shunt things over there after arrival elsewhere.

 

You probably need to give yourself a wee bit more room between the top track and the wall to allow for overhanging ends of stock.

 

And the tracks leading to the two long platforms exit the formation of curved points a bit closer together than standard Peco track spacing - 44 mm plays 50 for Streamline and 67 for Settrack - so again you might have coming togethers of long coaching stock on the curves.  A tiny bit of straight before the first two curved points on the outer curve would cure that.

 

Cheers, Chris 

[Monkey]

Cheers for the feedback Chris. 

 

That inability to come into the short platform 'the right way' was something that bothered me (see my previous post when I was trying to add a slip to 'Pacific Terminus'. But it was a feature of the original Minories, and thats what I've based this on. I'll come up with something further down the track to make this fit the story, perhaps a depot or a branchline. 

 

I'll be sure to remember what you said about track spacing too. The positions as they are aren't set in stone, I think it's more of a diagram to me and I'll test and adjust when it comes to laying it. 

 

So overall do you think it works? Am I missing any operational features to make it make sense, or do I have anything pointless in there? 

[Zomboid]

It's not a platform on the original Minories, it's the loco spur.

 

If the model is to be of the 800 era then the most likely arrangement is that it's out of use with the turnout and track removed (so just model the empty trackbed and save yourself the cost of one point) or a tamper siding/ RRAP, in which case it can be truncated earlier.

[Monkey]

48 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

It's not a platform on the original Minories, it's the loco spur.

 

If the model is to be of the 800 era then the most likely arrangement is that it's out of use with the turnout and track removed (so just model the empty trackbed and save yourself the cost of one point) or a tamper siding/ RRAP, in which case it can be truncated earlier.

 

Thanks, thats exactly what I'm looking for - ideas to give the layout a story / purpose. 

 

Forgive me but I'll need tamper siding /RRAP explained to me 

[Zomboid]

It's a siding used for parking on track plant such as tampers, rail grinders etc. RRAP is Road Rail Access Point, used for getting road/rail yellow machines onto the track.

 

The same siding could be both.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Zomboid

[Monkey]

Ah I see. Thanks. 

 

I think that'd fit with my other idea to have a small NR depot just off to the left.