Jump to content
 

Where to find cheap 1st generation DMUs


Recommended Posts

I am not sure if this is the right subforum, but I can't see a better place for it.

Where would the best place to look for cheaper models of 1st generation DMUs be. I am particularly  interested in the Thames Valley area. My research so far suggests that the following regularly operated in this area:

101

104

108

117

119

121

As well as a few of the following:

115

118

122

Hornby do not currently produce models of these (unless I'm blind), and the Dapol and Bachmann models are above the price that I would be willing to pay. Where can I find models of these on the second hand market (Ebay obviously, but is there anywhere else)? What are the best* manufacturers to look for? As mentioned, I am looking at the Thames Valley around the 1980s (possibly stretching into the early 1990s) so the liveries that I am looking for will largely be blue/grey and NSE. Thank you in advance for any advice.

 

*Any lack of detail on older models will not be an issue - they will fit right in to my existing 1980s/90s rolling stock. I am looking for a model which is likely to run well (or at least could be made to without too much work and after a conversion to DCC) and is recogniseable as that class (although I can't really tell the difference between similar types such as the 117 and 118, certainly not at a distance). As long as it meets these two conditions, price will determine which is best.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
22 minutes ago, DK123GWR said:

I
 

Hornby do not currently produce models of these (unless I'm blind), and the Dapol and Bachmann models are above the price that I would be willing to pay. Where can I find models of these on the second hand market (Ebay obviously, but is there anywhere else)?


Realistically you only have one choice, second hand Lima. You’ll find the 121, 101/117 available in blue/blue grey/ NSE and regional railways schemes. NSE on the 101 was a late release, so not many around and they tended to command higher values second hand. The 121 and101 subsequently joined the Hornby Railroad range with improved mechanisms.  The 117 centre car isn’t common either, so 3 car sets or separate centre cars can also be higher priced. The 117 was certainly available in blue and blue grey, I can’t recall NSE being released, almost certainly not on the centre car. The other option for a DMU would be the Hornby 110 in blue/blue grey but not common in Thames valley. 
Finding the above cheap? Facebook marketplace, Gumtree, those sort of platforms. Obviously there’s no ebay/retail type cover if it’s a lemon.

  • Agree 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The 104 is an easy conversion from the Hornby 110.

For the 119, Craftsman did a conversion kit to fit the Lima 117 which can sometimes be found at exhibitions or toy fairs as well as Ebay.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Yes, Lima will be your best bet here. Good models for their time.

 

Worth pointing out too that the WR had a great liking for hybrid units. You will sometimes be able to pick up one element of a DMU quite cheaply because it is not complete with the rest of the unit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Yes, Lima will be your best bet here. Good models for their time.

 

Worth pointing out too that the WR had a great liking for hybrid units. You will sometimes be able to pick up one element of a DMU quite cheaply because it is not complete with the rest of the unit.

Thank you. I'd been planning on a bit of mix and match anyway having seen photos so this is definitely an option. I'll just have to make sure I remember to buy power cars as most of the individual unnits for sale are dummys. Failing this, how much work would be required to replace a regular bogie with a motorised one?

It's a bit frustrating that for every cheap Lima product you find on Ebay there seem to be three Bachmann ones, even when searching for 'Lima'. Does anybody know a way to get around this, or is it just the price you have to pay?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
8 minutes ago, DK123GWR said:

Thank you. I'd been planning on a bit of mix and match anyway having seen photos so this is definitely an option. I'll just have to make sure I remember to buy power cars as most of the individual unnits for sale are dummys. Failing this, how much work would be required to replace a regular bogie with a motorised one?

It's a bit frustrating that for every cheap Lima product you find on Ebay there seem to be three Bachmann ones, even when searching for 'Lima'. Does anybody know a way to get around this, or is it just the price you have to pay?

eBay listing is cr*p. I'm not sure if that is eBay's fault (poor algorithms) or sellers who know nothing about what they are selling. Probably both!

 

It may help if you put some + in your search e.g. Lima+00+diesel.

 

Motorising a dummy involves a lot of chopping or use of a "spud" type bogie. Those have become a bit scarce (and expensive) now. Given your budget restrictions, if you can find some non-motorised coaches that represent powered units rather than unpowered trailers, make them up into units that you can couple to a powered model to make up a longer train. So long as you do not have any severe gradients on your layout, a powered DMU should be able to haul/propel an unpowered model. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

eBay listing is cr*p. I'm not sure if that is eBay's fault (poor algorithms) or sellers who know nothing about what they are selling. Probably both!

 

It may help if you put some + in your search e.g. Lima+00+diesel.

 

Motorising a dummy involves a lot of chopping or use of a "spud" type bogie. Those have become a bit scarce (and expensive) now. Given your budget restrictions, if you can find some non-motorised coaches that represent powered units rather than unpowered trailers, make them up into units that you can couple to a powered model to make up a longer train. So long as you do not have any severe gradients on your layout, a powered DMU should be able to haul/propel an unpowered model. 

I'll just do that. I'm not worried about gradients as I don't have the space. Even if I did, we are talking about a section of 'Brunel's billiard table'.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
37 minutes ago, DK123GWR said:

Failing this, how much work would be required to replace a regular bogie with a motorised one?

 


A lot of work. The floor mouldings are different, and fixing the bogie side frames to a ‘spud’ also not particularly easy, partly due to the plastic used for the Lima bogies. If cost is a significant element, by the time you’ve bought a replacement motor bogie, you’re likely better off waiting for a Lima unit on eBay etc as it will be cheaper. On eBay just type in ‘Lima DMU’ and they’ll all be there.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Replica Railways offer a low profile power unit which may suit some conversions. Office probably closed during lock down however.

http://www.replicarailways.co.uk/

 

I wouldn't give up on Bachmann or Dapol either (and you need Bachmann if a 108 is a priority). I obtained a s/h 105 two car set for £70 'as new' just two months ago, a find in a small model shop. They are out there, or will be when normal opportunity to move about and search the shelves resumes.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

eBay listing is cr*p. I'm not sure if that is eBay's fault (poor algorithms) or sellers who know nothing about what they are selling. Probably both!

 

It may help if you put some + in your search e.g. Lima+00+diesel.

 

Motorising a dummy involves a lot of chopping or use of a "spud" type bogie. Those have become a bit scarce (and expensive) now. Given your budget restrictions, if you can find some non-motorised coaches that represent powered units rather than unpowered trailers, make them up into units that you can couple to a powered model to make up a longer train. So long as you do not have any severe gradients on your layout, a powered DMU should be able to haul/propel an unpowered model. 

 

Or get a Heljan DPU to pull unpowered units  - they often ran coupled to units , and were available new down to £59 at one stage. I defy you to find a limit to the amount of unpowered units you could hang on the back of one of them - will pull a house down!

  • Like 2
  • Agree 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Lima did do a whole three car 117 in NSE as I remember seeing it and nearly buying one but was put off by the poor livery application (the wrongly dimensioned window behind the cab put the stripe chevrons out of kilter) and both driving cars being DMBS although with cutting and shutting, removing the other Brake accommodation was doable 

 

The 101 with some extra pick ups fitted was superb for it's time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Lima did do a whole three car 117 in NSE as I remember seeing it and nearly buying one but was put off by the poor livery application (the wrongly dimensioned window behind the cab put the stripe chevrons out of kilter) and both driving cars being DMBS although with cutting and shutting, removing the other Brake accommodation was doable 

 

The 101 with some extra pick ups fitted was superb for it's time.

ISTR the NSE 117 came out about the same time as the Regional Railways version although the latter seems more common now.

 

I agree about the 101, not much a little detailing won't fix:

 

2006_1219Image0121.jpg.00eaf5c3c2d682b631c520330c9e883f.jpg

 

Edit: This thread has prompted me to get this out of the loft. It's fitted with a  Black Beetle which runs nicely now I've oiled it. I will dcc it later so I can run it on my layout.

Edited by giz
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest Half-full

101 - Lima or Hornby (NSE Lima only) - or DC Kit

104 - Convert from a Hornby 110

108 - Bachmann or DC Kit (if you can find one)

117 - Lima - will need one of the DMBS' cut about to produce a DMS using a spare TC shell or moulding from Silver Fox

119 - Silver Fox overlays for LIma 117 (or Craftsman kit if you can find one)

121 - Lima or Hornby (or Dapol for a modern take on it)

As well as a few of the following:

115 - convert from a Lima 117 - no kit that Im aware of

118 - convert from a Lima 117 - no kit that Im aware of

122 - Dapol, or convert from a Lima 121/117 or Hornby 121

 

eBay is your best bet, for all of the above, or possibly Facebook market place (I dont use Facebook but have heard of deals on there) 

 

For the Dapol units, Hattons has some cheap at the moment

Edited by Half-full
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Don't forget a lot of 117's were sacrificed to become cut and shut 121's and with Craftsman conversion parts, plenty of other DMU's as well.  Ironically Lima sacrificed the 117 moulds to make their RTR 121 towards the end.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Not aware of 104s working out of Paddington, or anywhere south of the Birmingham area; 117/8 were the most common.  You might want to look at kits for converting mk1s into 123s as well; they were used on the Oxford service around your time.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Not aware of 104s working out of Paddington, or anywhere south of the Birmingham area; 117/8 were the most common.  You might want to look at kits for converting mk1s into 123s as well; they were used on the Oxford service around your time.  

In their final days some of the ex Gospel Oak - Barking NSE livery sets moved to the Thames Line:

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-104/operations-later

 

Here's one at the rear of a mixed set:

 

NSE Unit Combination

 

Edited by giz
Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, meatloaf said:

Ive seen Hornby 3 car 101s new for 69.99 the other day but cant for the life of me remember where

 

Green and blue 3 car Hornby 101s for 70 quid at Hereford Models, click here.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
11 minutes ago, giz said:

In their final days some of the ex Gospel Oak - Barking NSE livery sets moved to the Thames Line:

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-104/operations-later

 

Here's one at the rear of a mixed set:

 

NSE Unit Combination

 

Well, wontcha just look at that!  Never even knew they'd got to Gospel Oak!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...