Scalescenes PDF Default Print Size (100%)

[SteveyDee68]

Hi

 

This may turn out to be a stupid questions, but possibly not as stupid as what I might have already done...

 

Printing some black & white "mock up" prints of various Scalescene kit elements in order to plan the buildings on my micro Blackford Wharf, I suddenly noticed that the PDFs were defaulting on my HP laserjet to "Shrink to fit" and were printing at 94%! So each time I decided to print a page, I found I was having to "Set to scale" and typing in 100% before printing to ensure correct size for OO (1:76)

 

Now, I have a box - a big box ... in fact, one might say an embarrassingly huge box - of Scalescene kit printouts, from the free railside wooden storage shed (remember that?!) through to the large station building, many in multiple (factory, industrial buildings etc), all done with a colour laser when I had direct access wherever I worked!!!

 

I admit right now that I carry my little USB memory stick around with me with any Scalescene PDFs I need to print, and should the opportunity arise (when, for example, printing class worksheets I have created in my own time, unpaid) I would print off the kits and store away for the day I need them.

 

But now, I realise that my own black and white laser printer defaults to 94% when printing from a PDF! Or is it the PDF file itself that defaults to "fit to page" when printing? Either way, it has thrown doubt upon whether my prints in the box are to correct 4mm/foot scale or not!

 

I shall start checking them tomorrow, but in the meantime can anybody tell me - Do Scalescenes PDF files default to print at 100% or is the print scale something calculated by "smart" printers, meaning that different model of printer/photocopier will print the same model differently?

 

Many thanks for any advice!

 

LOTS OF FUN FOR 2021!

[brossard]

I just did a test on a Scalescenes kit that I have.  This is a screenshot:

 

 

It doesn't appear to default to 94%.  The default is "Custom Scale" and 100%.  Back to the drawing board for you I guess.

 

I recommend that, if you plan to construct a lot of Scalescenes kits, you buy a good quality printer.

 

John

Edited January 17, 2021 by brossard

[NinOz]

Generally the size defaults to the settings defined for each instance of the software used to print.  My current PDF reader (Wondershare) defaults to fit to page at the moment (also double sided) so I always check settings before printing.

To really make printing the kits even more challenging is that I have found that printing "full size" is different depending on the program I use to print.  Found this out by printing some pages using one reader and then doing the rest with another reader, same printer by the way.  Had to chuck the half finished buildings in the bin as nothing would line up.  Was told by a few "experts" on a web site that this was not possible to happen.   Quite reproducible.

Would be nice if Scalescenes included a ruler on the pages to check printing sizes.

Is the slight size discrepancy a problem for buildings?

 

[john new]

Some systems allow you to set up custom settings - if yours does set one up as Scalescenes, the before printing just select that one.

[SteveyDee68]

Thanks for the replies!

 

The screenshot is interesting brossard in that it shows your printer defaulting to a custom size - I shall start checking my printer profiles and see if I might change my default setting, or create a Scalescenes profile as suggested by john new. The slight size discrepancy might not matter for background buildings on a larger depth layout, as they might suggest a bit if perspective NinOz, but anything with doorways or canopies for rolling stock might come a cropper! 

 

I have several, (what I consider) good quality printers available to use - an HP black and white laser for 'normal' printing, an HP all in one inkjet/scanner which I occasionally use for printing (needs new ink!!) but mainly for scanning, a shared wireless inkjet which has a much higher dpi output than my own (!) and a secondhand colour HP laser printer purchased off eBay for the pricely sum of £17 and petrol costs to collect from Burton (upon Trent)! I can check the default settings on all of those, but "free" copies come courtesy of commercial colour photocopiers where I work on a Saturday - but as music-making has been suspended since March last year I've not had (and still don't have) access to check them!

 

I woke in the middle of the night with a solution courtesy of a strange dream where I was sitting a Geography exam whilst the building was being demolished around me (!) - I can "print to PDF" from my printer settings, so I could set it to print at 100% and then save that new PDF file and take that to print ...

 

I woke up this morning realising what a daft idea that was! 

 

Basically, I now realise I need to (a) check my default settings for my own printers (b) get familiar with the default settings for the copier/printers at work and (c) remember to check every time I print!

 

HOURS OF FUN!

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by SteveyDee68

[Roy Langridge]

On 17/01/2021 at 05:01, NinOz said:

Would be nice if Scalescenes included a ruler on the pages to check printing sizes.

 

 

The Scalescene test print has exactly that: Test Print

 

Roy

[Booking Hall]

On 17/01/2021 at 05:01, NinOz said:

Would be nice if Scalescenes included a ruler on the pages to check printing sizes

On all the kits I have downloaded, the title block on each page has both a 10mm and 1" scale within it.

[Royal42]

That is interesting because the sets that I bought last week do not have any size references on them.  The instruction sheets do not even mention what size paper or card to use to print them on; only stating the thickness of the paper or card to be used.

Mike

Edited March 17, 2021 by Royal42

[brossard]

I checked some kits in my possession, no ruler type indications are present on the files.  There is a downloadable ruler available.

 

I think that for 00, it is understood that in the UK, A4 paper is used.

 

As for card, I buy large sheets of various thicknesses (0.5, 1.0 and 2.0mm) from my Art Supply Shop.

 

John

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by brossard

[Welchester]

In 4mm scale I would use the 'Actual Size' print option, which seems to work.

[Booking Hall]

1 hour ago, Booking Hall said:

 

 

14 minutes ago, brossard said:

I checked some kits in my possession, no ruler type indications are present on the files.

How strange, I thought all of them had it.

[brossard]

Of the kits I checked, the Factory Set, Factory boxfile and the Canal Wharf boxfile have the measurement marks.  Maybe something included in newer kits.

 

John

[Theakerr]

I have a few Scalescene downloads, all have had a scale ruler but what a game to get the print to the correct dimensions.  As I remember because I haven't downloaded any for a long time - more of that in a minute, I have had to use the manual adjust on my print page and the adjustments have varied between +104% and - 95%.   The reason I have not downloaded anything in the last few years is because I purchased a medium range Brothers LazerJet printer that has no colour adjustment - presumably because it knows better than I what the colour should be.   So my dirty red brick are a bright orange etc etc.   Moral is to make sure any printer one purchases has an adjustable colour palette.

 

 

[Booking Hall]

3 hours ago, brossard said:

Of the kits I checked, the Factory Set, Factory boxfile and the Canal Wharf boxfile have the measurement marks.  Maybe something included in newer kits

That prompted me to look at the earliest kits I downloaded, and, no, the scale bars are not present on them. So, as you say John, a later addition.

[brossard]

1 hour ago, Theakerr said:

I have a few Scalescene downloads, all have had a scale ruler but what a game to get the print to the correct dimensions.  As I remember because I haven't downloaded any for a long time - more of that in a minute, I have had to use the manual adjust on my print page and the adjustments have varied between +104% and - 95%.   The reason I have not downloaded anything in the last few years is because I purchased a medium range Brothers LazerJet printer that has no colour adjustment - presumably because it knows better than I what the colour should be.   So my dirty red brick are a bright orange etc etc.   Moral is to make sure any printer one purchases has an adjustable colour palette.

 

 

 

I don't recall having any difficulty with size settings for Scalescenes.  I have built a lot in my time.  These days I build in 7mm so I use the Custom setting to 175%.

 

As for printers, I guess they are variable.  I bought my HP OfficeJet Pro 8720 several years ago and it has been marvellous.  I haven't had to adjust colour and what I print looks fine to me (colours are going to subjective though).  The nice thing is my printer uses oil based ink which means I get to use every last drop in the cartridge.

 

John

[Roy Langridge]

I have hit this problem this week, having not been aware that I had it. I have always printed at actual size on my printer and thought I had no problem. This week though, I needed to reprint a sheet for a kit I was building up and my printer was playing up, so I sent it to another printer in the house. Laying the overlay on the base layer showed a significant difference.

 

It turns out that actual size on my printer is actually about 97% - the other printer is spot on. Both are set at actual size, A4 paper and have no scaling applied by the printer itself.

 

Edit: just to add, they are both Brother laser printers.

Very odd.

Roy

Edited March 18, 2021 by Roy Langridge

[brossard]

Roy, I think you are fine as long as every sheet you print is the same size, whether 97% or 100%.  On the layout a 97% building will not look out of place.  You should get 100% whether using "Actual Size" or "Custom Scale - 100%".  If you use "Fit" you could get a smaller print than expected.

 

I have no experience with Brother printers so won't even attempt to explain the discrepancy.

 

To confirm I suggest you download the ruler:

 

https://scalescenes.com/wp-content/uploads/Scale_Ruler.pdf

 

Print this with your usual settings and compare against a real ruler.

 

John

[Roy Langridge]

1 minute ago, brossard said:

Roy, I think you are fine as long as every sheet you print is the same size, whether 97% or 100%.  On the layout a 97% building will not look out of place.  You should get 100% whether using "Actual Size" or "Custom Scale - 100%".  If you use "Fit" you could get a smaller print than expected.

 

I have no experience with Brother printers so won't even attempt to explain the discrepancy.

 

To confirm I suggest you download the ruler:

 

https://scalescenes.com/wp-content/uploads/Scale_Ruler.pdf

 

Print this with your usual settings and compare against a real ruler.

 

John

 

Hi John,

 

It was using the scale ruler that led me to determine which one printer was wrong. I usually only use one printer so I was unaware until now and have not hit particular problems. It is a strange one as I can check that all the print settings were identical and are both using Brother print drivers.

 

Oh well

 

Roy

 

 

 

 

[ikcdab]

On 17/01/2021 at 05:01, NinOz said:

Would be nice if Scalescenes included a ruler on the pages to check printing sizes

Actually they already do that, or at least they do on the newer kits. Just checked the medium station and the fire station and both have scalebars printed in the bottom left hand corner.

[SteveyDee68]

On 18/03/2021 at 13:25, ikcdab said:

Actually they already do that, or at least they do on the newer kits. Just checked the medium station and the fire station and both have scalebars printed in the bottom left hand corner.

 

Which just goes to show that there is always something new to learn (or realise you never noticed*)

 

HOURS OF FUN!

 

 

 

* Such as the existence of "gravity" until it is pointed out to you as a thing!

 

[ianLMS]

I have several Scalescenes kits and used a Sharp laser printer. For my garage which is set slightly further back (5ft from front of layout), I printed the pages at 90% to see it made a difference for forced perspective.  The church and farm at the rear of the layout (8ft from front of layout) I printed at 75%.

 

The terraced houses and cottages are printed at 100%. I dont think the garage looks out of place.

 

Personally, I would use the 94% printed kits as really the difference would be minimal. Its even less of a difference than using HO items on a OO gauge layout (3.5mm/ft vs 4mm/ft) which is quite common.

 

 

[Toottoot]

I have recently left the Windows world and now Mac based. Using the same printer it seems that the Windows PDF needs to be set to 100% but the Mac using the same PDF print needs to be set at 110% to maintainer same size.

 

Unfortunately using cheap colour cartridges now produce a range of problems as the colour balance is different, thePrint from the Mac printing Ashlar is quite pink.

 

rgds

[brossard]

Perhaps this might be of use:

 

https://scalescenes.com/wp-content/uploads/Test_print__OO.pdf

 

John

[Toottoot]

Thanks for the link, I have used it before and it is a good indicator of the brick styles, although the sample sizes are a bit small,  May be a two page pdf would be useful with slightly larger samples.

 

An additional piece of advice to those that may be having a problem. I have a Brother inkjet printer which you can set  a range of prints ie Fast, normal, Fine, best which all give different finishes. I have found that the printer also has paper settings for different photo and plain paper.  In my case five types, in each case these seem to give different tones with the print settings. So I seem to have 4 ranges, 5 papers giving a choice of 20 prints. Admittedly some prints are similar but not the same setting.

 

The next batch of printing will be sprayed with a fixer to see if the colour holds,  The layout is in the attic, not too much light, but hot in the summer.

 

Rgds

[Toottoot]

A passing thought !
 

I don’t know if the following is true but, if my scalescenes pdf is say 95 percent and a have to enlarge it to 110 percent, do I get a dilution of 15 percent on colour shading ?

 

Or does a pdf not work that way ?

 

rgds