CWS Dairy at Stewarts Lane depot

[Karhedron]

Does anyone know of any photographs showing the Co-operative Wholesale Society's bottling dairy at Stewarts Lane depot please? It seems to have operated from the late 30s to the late 60s. It was on the northern edge of the depot, next to the carriage sheds and the site is now occupied by a bus depot. This map from 1951 shows the location well.

 

 

Unfortunately I can't seem to find any decent shots. The best I can mange is a very distant and blurry shot from the air in 1950. It shows a squarish industrial building with a sheltered platform on the rail side but no real detail.

 

 

The only photo from ground level I have found is a loco shunting milk tanks but it is well away from the dairy.

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Clapham_Stewarts_Lane_Depot_geograph-2663029-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

 

If anyone has any photos of the dairy from ground level or knows where to find some, I would be very interested to see them.

 

[Karhedron]

Still looking for help on this one if anyone has any inspiration please

[Nearholmer]

I've hunted for pictures of this too, and so far drawn a blank. 

 

It was the reason that there was always at least one very short-wheelbase loco allocated there, to get round the horrible corner. I think at various times it was a B4, a Terrier, a P as in the photo you link to, and other small locos. Whether it survived long enough to be shunted by a 204hp or 350hp diesel, I'm not sure.

[balders]

An interesting thread. It's now Abellio's Battersea bus depot, at which I work sometimes. Some of the rails under the rail overbridge are still in place in the tarmac as you turn into the depot and the milk facility would have been on the corner of the new garage structure. SL depot ( the old carriage sheds) adjoins the yard. 

 

Regards

 

Guy

Edited March 27, 2021 by balders

[Arun Sharma]

RNH Hardy who was shedmaster at Stewarts Lane [amongst other places] wrote a long series of illustrated articles in Steam World about 10 years ago which included details of the milk dock there. The usual milk dock shunter was an engine nicknamed 'Spinky" which was a Neilson-built 0-4-0 crane tank [BR No: 31302]. Amongst its other claim to fame was that it once hauled a complete ECS Pullman set to Waterloo as no other engine was available.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Arun Sharma

[Oldddudders]

15 minutes ago, Arun Sharma said:

RNH Hardy who was shedmaster at Stewarts Lane [amongst other places] wrote a long series of illustrated articles in Steam World about 10 years ago which included details of the milk dock there. The usual milk dock shunter was an engine nicknamed 'Spinky" which was a Neilson-built 0-4-0 crane tank [BR No: 31302]. Amongst its other claim to fame was that it once hauled a complete ECS Pullman set to Waterloo as no other engine was available.

Umm. Stew Lane to Waterloo is a bit of a complicated trip, requiring running round at Clapham Junction or similar. Was it Victoria? 

[Karhedron]

2 hours ago, Arun Sharma said:

RNH Hardy who was shedmaster at Stewarts Lane [amongst other places] wrote a long series of illustrated articles in Steam World about 10 years ago which included details of the milk dock there. 

 

Thanks for that information. I would really like to track those down. I don't suppose you can remember which issues by any chance?

 

2 hours ago, Arun Sharma said:

The usual milk dock shunter was an engine nicknamed 'Spinky" which was a Neilson-built 0-4-0 crane tank [BR No: 31302]. Amongst its other claim to fame was that it once hauled a complete ECS Pullman set to Waterloo as no other engine was available.

 

I have seen a couple of pics of the crane tank on milk shunting duties.

 

https://picclick.co.uk/1302-Southern-Steam-Train-Railway-Photograph-Not-Original-124604877764.html#&gid=1&pid=1

 

 

 

[Arun Sharma]

4 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Umm. Stew Lane to Waterloo is a bit of a complicated trip, requiring running round at Clapham Junction or similar. Was it Victoria? 

Could have been - though not certain. I'll have a hunt through my bound copies of SW. Clapham Jcn was certainly mentioned by Mr Hardy .

[chrisf]

10 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Umm. Stew Lane to Waterloo is a bit of a complicated trip, requiring running round at Clapham Junction or similar. Was it Victoria? 

 

I doubt it.  This may well have been the Bournemouth Belle set or perhaps a boat special for Southampton.  What Pullman trains worked into and out of Victoria other than the Brighton Belle?

 

Chris

[Bulleidnutter]

2 hours ago, chrisf said:

 

I doubt it.  This may well have been the Bournemouth Belle set or perhaps a boat special for Southampton.  What Pullman trains worked into and out of Victoria other than the Brighton Belle?

 

Chris

The Golden Arrow. Kentish Belle. 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Bulleidnutter

[2251]

On ‎28‎/‎03‎/‎2021 at 09:06, Bulleidnutter said:

The Golden Arrow. Kentish Belle. 

Newhaven boat trains, too.

[Nearholmer]

Newhaven boat trains weren't Pullman, were they?*

 

Of course, the litteral answer to the question is: lots, because many services to Eastbourne and Hove were formed of 6-PUL stock, and before that had Pullmans in an otherwise ordinary train of loco-hauled stock.

 

But, we know that isn't what the OP meant.

 

There were, of course, a fair few specials, notably the Derby Day Royal Train.

 

*Ah, at some dates they included a Pullman. 1930s description:

 

"One reason for this weight is that, as with all the Continental trains now, the Southern authorities use on this service their latest and most comfortable type corridor coaches, each weighing 32 or 33 tons, in conjunction with a 12-wheeled Pullman car, so that a 12-coach formation alone brings the weight above the 400-ton mark."

Edited March 30, 2021 by Nearholmer

[2251]

Southern Railway Magazine, August 1936:

 

[Sabato]

On 27/03/2021 at 20:40, Karhedron said:

 

The usual milk dock shunter was an engine nicknamed 'Spinky" which was a Neilson-built 0-4-0 crane tank [BR No: 31302]. Amongst its other claim to fame was that it once hauled a complete ECS Pullman set to Waterloo as no other engine was available.

Very unlikely, I'd say. Three link couplings and, at best, steam brake only, would have made it a hairy journey, never mind adhesion issues.

[Nearholmer]

It does have the ring of a story penned by Rev Awdry, but then, all his were based on real events.

 

(I hope Karhedron doesn't mind all this diversion!)

[chris45lsw]

0-6-0T 756 "A S Harris" also appeared there between 1949 and 1951 when it was withdrawn.

 

Chris KT 

[Arun Sharma]

Regarding 31302 and the ECS - see pages45/6 of SW194 Aug 2003 for details.  The task was to move a 450ton Pullman set [Brighton Belle] from the Stewarts Lane carriage sidings to Clapham Junction [South Lambeth Yard] so as to clear the SL shed outlet as the yard pilot [an N15] was blocked in and unavailable. This would have been around 1948.

[Nearholmer]

A 5-BEL weighed about 50 tons per car, so 250 tons in total. As a shunt from Stew Lane to South Lambeth, imaginable, if-heroic, for such a tiny loco, and the EMU has hand-brakes that can be applied from the cabs, so at snail's pace, it could be done safely, I imagine.

[Oldddudders]

Stew Lane to South Lambeth was a short shunt, into the headshunt by the power station and back round into the sidings. . 

[2251]

For those not immediately familiar with the tangle of lines in that area, here is the RCH diagram (produced well before time frame we are talking about, but useful as showing more clearly than an OS map the basic shape of the lines).

 

NB -- the GW's South Lambeth Goods is not really at Clapham Jct, but immediately south of the power station.

 

[Sabato]

7 hours ago, Arun Sharma said:

Regarding 31302 and the ECS - see pages45/6 of SW194 Aug 2003 for details.  The task was to move a 450ton Pullman set [Brighton Belle] from the Stewarts Lane carriage sidings to Clapham Junction [South Lambeth Yard] so as to clear the SL shed outlet as the yard pilot [an N15] was blocked in and unavailable. This would have been around 1948.

 

Well that makes more sense, but not an ECS turn into Waterloo. 

 

A touch of "send 2/4, we're going to advance" , or was it "send reinforcements, umm?

 

[Oldddudders]

16 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

A 5-BEL weighed about 50 tons per car, so 250 tons in total. As a shunt from Stew Lane to South Lambeth, imaginable, if-heroic, for such a tiny loco, and the EMU has hand-brakes that can be applied from the cabs, so at snail's pace, it could be done safely, I imagine.

Snail's pace would be advisable inside South Lambeth, certainly, due to extreme curvature. In relatively modern times ISTR a trial of a VTG or similar wagon in there resulted in a derailment. 

 

Incidentally the headshunt on that diagram was shortened in something of a hurry in the early-80s, immediately prior to the power station closure. Pipes under the Thames took hot water from the power station to some flats on the north bank. A new boiler house needed to be constructed pronto to keep those places served, and the siding was shortened to allow this. 

 

Apologies to Karhedron for drift!

[Karhedron]

10 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Apologies to Karhedron for drift!

 

No worries, it is in the nature of conversations. As long as the thread is active, the better the odds that someone with more information may stumble across it.

 

Thanks to Arun's tip-off, I have some magazines with RNH Hardy's articles and photos arriving in the next few days. Hopefully they will provide some illumination.

[Karhedron]

I think I have finally found a picture of the elusive dairy.

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p245409357/h5a80539a#h5a80539a

 

Can anyone see anything that confirms or scuppers my suspicions? It is the right shape for the building in the aerial photo with a 2-storey centre block flanked by single-storey wings. The angular art deco architecture fits the 1930s date of construction. The black drainpipes at the 1/4 and 3/4 positions look like they are visible on the aerial photo too (unless I am squinting too hard  ). Crucially there is only a single track in front of the building and most of Stewarts Lane had 2+ tracks. The milk depot siding was one of the few single-track locations.

 

I am about 90% sure I have found it but would appreciate a second opinion.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Karhedron

[73c]

Sorry , Karhedron. Looks more like the side of Feltham shed with the windows blocked out.

 

Windows here - 

 

 

End of building and chimney here - https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=128923