Any card or plastic models representing the old Birmingham New Street station?

[Royal42]

Hello all,

I am attempting to draw and print some loco's and would like to place them in a station setting.  I am new to CAD and 3D printing so loco's are mostly experimental; however, any buildings and scenes would probably look better if I could find card models or even plastic kits of buildings to go with them.

 

I grew up in Birmingham and much of my childhood playtime, in the 1950's and 1960's , was spent at New Street Station.  As such, I would like to try and do some form of diorama of that; perhaps looking down into the station from street level.  Due to the area concerned, I would likely need to do this in N-gauge.

Any help and advice would be gratefully appreciated.

 

Mike

Edited March 7, 2021 by Royal42

[Paul H Vigor]

59 minutes ago, Royal42 said:

Hello all,

I am attempting to draw and print some loco's and would like to place them in a station setting.  I am new to CAD and 3D printing so loco's are mostly experimental; however, any buildings and scenes would probably look better if I could find card models or even plastic kits of buildings to go with them.

 

I grew up in Birmingham and much of my childhood playtime was spent at New Street Station, in the 1950's and 1960's,  and I would like to try and do some form of diorama of that; perhaps looking down into the station from street level.  Due to the area concerned, I would likely need to do this in N-gauge.

Any help and advice would be gratefully appreciated.

 

Mike

I always regretted never experiencing the old New Street Station before it was buried beneath what became The Pallasades shopping centre in 1971 (?).

[Royal42]

Yes, it was a dream setting for train spotters and anyone wanting to detail a Kitmaster or Airfix loco.  The wall, under the Chetwyns sign in the first photo, used to be the entrance to Station Road which led down into the station and then up the other side to what became the Ringway, with platforms on both sides.  The second photo shows the road, immediately behind the large signal box.  We could walk down that road and be alongside the loco's without going into the station itself or having to by a platform ticket!    I found this site to have some very good images of the pre-modernisation.

 

cheers,
Mike

Edited March 6, 2021 by Royal42

[46256]

My first visit to New Street was in 1966 and even then was under the new shopping centre. I therefore sadly never knew the old station. I did get to know the newer station intimately, working with the authorities to have an evacuation plan in place. I was a police officer at the time, and the station was/ is classed as underground. The events of the dreadful Kings Cross fire initiating this review. I am pleased that thus far our plan , has not been required. This of course predated the latest rebuild ...on my first visit to this version, I was completely disorientated,  such was the nature of the changes, to concourse etc.
I have often pondered how the steam era station could be modelled with Queens Drive creating the two halves. The Midland side still with its train shed roof...the North western with its 1940 s concrete replacement platform coverings and all within a lower than street level environment..tunnels either end with the Queens hotel overlooking and the connecting footbridge a public right of way. I have visited the New Street power box on a number of occasions...a listed building...but sadly to my eyes a bit of an eyesore....beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course. 

 

I suspect that buildings would need to be scratch built that signal box in the second photo against a retaining wall the tracks going into the tunnel, would be a great cameo Just looked closely at the first photo...a Hymek ...not unheard of but still a rare occurrence in my spotting days early seventies...

 

best wishes Brian

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by 46256

[TheSignalEngineer]

3 hours ago, 46256 said:

........ that signal box in the second photo against a retaining wall the tracks going into the tunnel, would be a great cameo Just looked closely at the first photo...

It's not a signal box, it's the Coffee Tavern IIRC.

[Compound2632]

The series of volumes by Richard Foster, Birmingham New Street, published by Wild Swan, will provide everything you could possibly want to know.

[46256]

Good afternoon Eric This building was long gone when I knew New street...it wasn’t a railway structure? But some form of refreshment area .

 

best wishes Brian

Edited March 7, 2021 by 46256

[Compound2632]

The other great resource I should have mentioned is the Warwickshire Railways website, which has many if not all of the photos used in Foster's books. In the caption to the "coffee house" photo it is explained that such establishments were found at the larger LNWR stations as a staff facility with the dual aims of keeping staff out of (a) the passenger refreshment rooms and (b) the local pubs.

 

One difficulty with modelling New Street is its size; the other is that in both its old and new guises it is almost completely covered up. If you're thinking of a diorama, though, an interior view - inside the great overall roof - could work well, perhaps featuring part of the footbridge.

[TheSignalEngineer]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

In the caption to the "coffee house" photo it is explained that such establishments were found at the larger LNWR stations as a staff facility with the dual aims of keeping staff out of (a) the passenger refreshment rooms and (b) the local pubs.

The United Kingdom Railway Temperance Union and the Railway Servants Coffee Tavern Company operated a number of these establishments. I think there may have been an LNWR Coffee Tavern Company as well but am not sure. I remember using one at Crewe station when I was working in the area over 50 years ago.

[Royal42]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

One difficulty with modelling New Street is its size; the other is that in both its old and new guises it is almost completely covered up. If you're thinking of a diorama, though, an interior view - inside the great overall roof - could work well, perhaps featuring part of the footbridge.

The size is a constraint and so I would probably only do that area immediately under the road junction.  There would still be plenty to see as there would be a 9-point turntable, on the north side of the junction; Queen's drive to the south, with platforms 6 and 7 on either side;  the staff/refreshment rooms that look like a signal box; plus the other platforms and tunnel entrances etc.

 

This view shows some general placements, overlaid on the current view of the station.

 

Hopefully, I could build the ground level station and environs first and then construct the overpassing junction afterwards.  I remember the footbridge very well, and with affection as a train spotter, but I may have some difficulties constructing the entrances at each end. 

Another bit of nostalgia, there was a cinema almost opposite the west entrance which played films and cartoons all day for a single entrance fee.  I think it was called the Tatler.

 

cheers,

 

Mike

Edited March 7, 2021 by Royal42

[46256]

Thanks Eric and Stephen for the information, I can confirm that Warwickshire Railways is a mine of information put together painstakingly by Mike Musson. He has my undying thanks and admiration for capturing so many photographs of the railways of my boyhood county. I have contributed some of my boyhood village Water Orton to the collection. In terms of modelling the railways stations in central Brum I have often thought the north end of Snow hill would be something. It is on a viaduct....the end of the covered roof could form a convenient scenic break . 
 

Of course there is an immense model of New street as I knew it, operated to a full timetable I havnt seen it mentioned for a while so hopefully still functioning.

Edited March 10, 2021 by 46256

[Compound2632]

29 minutes ago, 46256 said:

Of course there is an immense model of New street as I knew it, operated to a full timetable I havnt seen it mentioned for a while so hopefully still functioning.

 

DMNS? - which I foolishly never went to visit as a youngster living nearby! I believe it was dismantled after Don Jones' death about a decade ago.

[46256]

You and me both Stephen...if I recall it was located in the royal borough. It had regular open days too...I feared when writing the earlier post that it no longer operated.  It was to P4 ..if I recall correctly,  remember some articles in MRJ. It also featured in central news...or midlands today...what a loss.

Edited March 7, 2021 by 46256

[Compound2632]

@46256, DMNS was 00. You are probably thinking of Jim Wright-Smith's magnum opus. 

[F-UnitMad]

4 minutes ago, 46256 said:

You and me both Stephen...if I recall it was located in the royal borough. I feared when writing the earlier post that it no longer operated.  It was to P4 ..if I recall correctly,  remember some articles in MRJ. 

The DMNS (Don's Miniature New Street) was in a Sutton Coldfield back garden, and was OO.

Jim Smith Wright is building a P4 version of New Street currently, a very long term project. I believe it is also minus a platform or two to narrow the width a bit.

 

Edit. Compound2632 beat me to it!!

[46256]

Yes just opened that link to the P4 creation, that was the MRJ feature....DMNS ...now I am straining  the grey matter it was New street as well? Having various lines out into the garden to allow a full timetable to be run

[46256]

Thanks F unit for clarifying.again posted as I was writing.....there you go Royal42 you will be in good company with your model.

[Compound2632]

Yes, DMNS = Don's Model New Street - the garden lines featured Rugeley power station for those whose appetite for brutalist concrete was unsated by New Street.

 

My advice to anyone contemplating modelling New Street would be: pick a different period!

[Steamport Southport]

I remember the model of the Rotunda in MRC September 1981.

 

https://magazineexchange.co.uk/cw/model-railway-constructor-magazine-september-1981-issue.html

 

Now that was impressive. More interesting than the fictional GWR tank engine anyway.

 

 

 

Jason

[Royal42]

I am about to start laying out the plan for this; however, I've just had a thought...   can I get N Gauge tracks in 1:148 scale?   I am totally new to N Gauge, my last dealing with trains was Triang OO in the 1960's, but recently I read that N Gauge trains were 1:160 and vehicles were 1:148.

 

Mike

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Royal42 said:

I am about to start laying out the plan for this; however, I've just had a thought...   can I get N Gauge tracks in 1:148 scale?   I am totally new to N Gauge, my last dealing with trains was Triang OO in the 1960's, but recently I read that N Gauge trains were 1:160 and vehicles were 1:148.

 

Mike

 

British N is 1:148 on 9 mm gauge - that's the standard for all British-outline RTR. (Frustratingly not quite 2 mm/ft scale.) Continental and North American N is 1:160, which is close to true scale for the track gauge. It's 00/H0 all over again and for the same reasons, I believe.

[Royal42]

Excellent, thank you Stephen.  That means that I can buy track, which is the only stuff I probably cannot scratchbuild myself, that will be near enough to my 1:144 scale stuff.

Anyone know or can recommend a source for cheap British N gauge track?  Perhaps there is a source for second-hand items somewhere?   I remember in my schooldays you could pick up bundles of used OO track at cheap discounts, so wondering something might be similarly available 60 years later?

I also remember that I could get a track layout template system.  It was tiny, in a sort of red plastic, and you could test out the layout by putting these little pieces together.  Anyone know if such exists today?

 

cheers,
Mike

Edited March 10, 2021 by Royal42

[46256]

Mike I have no experience in modelling in N....just added a 009 section to my own 4 mm layout. It was very different to my normal modelling. If I were seeking to model in N gauge I would consider looking up or even joining a body like the n gauge society.  In respect of track again without any prior knowledge I would look at the peco range to start with. I hope this helps

 

best wishes Brian

[Royal42]

Thanks Brian.  I have just looked at the Peco range; however, between £15 and £40 just for one set of points, then I think I may have to just 'represent' the lines with plastic rod.  I certainly cannot afford outlay like that.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

cheers,

Mike

Edited March 10, 2021 by Royal42

[33C]

What about cheap, kids, train sets, the "made in China" type, £5 or less and you at least get an oval. If the model is for display only, you only have to spray the track with red oxide primer. Found an N gauge type, wind-up set under £4 on ebay, free p+p. And you can use the "stock" , painted up, as scenery.