Ex GWR 56xx tanks - liveries in the 1960s

[Covkid]

Interested in the ex GWR 56XX and 66XX remaining in the West Midlands and around Croes Newydd in the 1960s. There are photos of these but they seem to have led an unkempt grubby life towards the end, and monochrome photos are not too helpful. I am assuming they were all outshopped in GWR green as they were built between 1924 and 1928, also assuming that the majority were outshopped in BR unlined black post 1948. 

 

The question is how many received BR lined green, presumably after BR black ? I notice an undated and pretty much uncaptioned photo in Hugh Longworth's tome of  sparkly  BR lined green 5671 with the late crest. Chris Heaps' "Western Region in the 1960s"  specifically mentions their green livery in photos of 6643 near Cwm Bargoed in 1965, and 6688 near Taff's Well in 1962. As I said earlier monochrome photos don't really help but would it be the case that a dull dark safety valve bonnet would indicate BR black instead of green livery

 

Welcome anyone's thoughts on this as I have a lined green Bachmann 56XX which is becoming 6692, but I also have a black example too, which I am wondering if it might not be representatitve of a Tyseley or Stourbridge allocated 56XX in around 1962.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Covkid
Correction

[The Stationmaster]

The main answer will be dated photos - and a hope that they are accurately dated.  56XX appeared in a variety of liveries - up until 1956 BR painted the 56XX in unlined black but in that year they were included in the classes authorised to be painted in green and Caerphilly works outshopped its last 56XX in black (5676) on 29 November that year. In the subsequent December, January and February Caerphilly turned out 6680, 5677, 6605, 5662, 5656, 5641, 5635, and 6609 in unlined green.  From February 1957 they began to apply lined green and the first 56XX to receive that livery was 5621.  Caerphilly began to apply the second BR emblem in March 1957 and the first 56XX to receive that was 5680.  But from March 1958 Caerphilly reverted to unlined black on some engines that would officially have qualified for lined green - there doesn't seem to be any official reference to an Instruction.  All the above information comes from Eric Mountford's book and  think its accuracy can be assured.

 

What happened at other works might well have been different and timings might have varied by several months, for example Caerphilly was quite late in going over to using the new BR emblem.  The next change - which I have as yet been unable to properly date - seems to have occurred c.1960 when the WR changed to the 'economy green' livery for all engines smaller than 4-6-0s which were allowed to be painted green, i.e. they ceased to be lined.  This definitely happened to 56XX as i travelled behind one between Quakers Yard HL and Pontypool Road, and back, in September 1962 and it was in a very well cleaned plain green livery but it was obviously not a recent paint job.  it is also possible that some might have been painted in unlined black throughout the 'green period' from c. early 1958 onwards.

 

The best contemporaneous sources are likely to be 'The Railway Observer' (the RCTS members' magazine) and, as already noted accurately dated photos of, preferably, very clean engines.  But to get accurate details for a specific period will inevitably require a lot of research.

[Miss Prism]

Examples of lined 0-6-2Ts

[Steamport Southport]

Good place for reference would be The 0-6-2 Tank Papers.

 

Two volumes full of photos in the same series as the Pannier and Prairie Papers, published by Irwell Press.

 

http://irwellpress.com/acatalog/GREAT_WESTERN_RAILWAY.html

 

 

Jason

[br2975]

A quick thumb through photos in my collection shows the following locos at least,  in lined green livery, followed by the date of the photograph where known.

 

56xx

5617 - 10/6/1962, 5619 - 17/8/1959, 5626 - 19/2/1961, 5627 - 24/5/1960, 5628 - 1961, 5632 - 1964, 5644 - 210561, 5645 - unknown date, 5647 - 1957, 5654 - 06/8/1961, 5668 - unknown date, 5674 - date unknown, 5685 - date unknown, 

66xx

6603 - 01/10/1959, 6616 - 14/7/1959, 6618 - 29/5/1960, 6624 - 1962, 6642 - 10/1962, 6651 - 1961,  6656 - date unknown, 6661 - 21/8/1962, 6665 - 29/5/1960, 6670 - 8/1959,  6688 - date unknown, 6691 - 1961, 

 

Whilst I CAN'T VOUCH FOR IT, TRY THIS fACEBOOK gROUP:-

56/66xx Jumbo Tank Engines | Facebook

 

Brian R

Edited April 22, 2021 by br2975

[eastglosmog]

Too add to the list given by br2975, in the recent Lightmoor Press book British Railway History in Colour, Vol 8, Warwickshire Western Region Lines (Andrew Britton 2020) there are pictures of 6671 in October 1963 and 5614 in March 1962, both in green livery - probably lined but it is difficult to see.  There are several other photos of 56xx's and 66xx's in the book, some of which may be green, but it is difficult to tell under the rust and grime.

[Covkid]

5 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Good place for reference would be The 0-6-2 Tank Papers.

 

Two volumes full of photos in the same series as the Pannier and Prairie Papers, published by Irwell Press.

 

http://irwellpress.com/acatalog/GREAT_WESTERN_RAILWAY.html

 

 

Jason

 

Many thanks Jason, and to all the others for your responses.

Books duly ordered. 

[Covkid]

On 22/04/2021 at 12:21, Steamport Southport said:

Good place for reference would be The 0-6-2 Tank Papers.

 

Two volumes full of photos in the same series as the Pannier and Prairie Papers, published by Irwell Press.

 

http://irwellpress.com/acatalog/GREAT_WESTERN_RAILWAY.html

 

 

Jason

Thanks very much Jason.  The first of the two books arrived today.

 

5606 looks a tempting example even though it is impossible to make out the crest, but it looks unlined green in 1965. 

Very impressed.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Covkid
More text

[phil_sutters]

One black, one lined green - Cardiff 1960 - 

[sandra]

I saw several at Croes Newydd in the early to middle 1960s but most of the examples I saw were so dirty they appeared to be black. The only exception I remember was 6604 which I saw at Chester General not long before she was withdrawn but she was in immaculate lined green livery. I presume she was shedded at Croes Newydd.

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

One black, one lined green - Cardiff 1960 - 

Now that takes me back!!!

[Steamport Southport]

6697 was a Croes Newydd engine.

 

It was the one bought direct from BR by the GWS and was one of the last working GWR locomotives as it escaped the mass withdrawal of GWR locomotives in 1965 as it was on the LMR.

 

 

https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/6697-2/

 

 

Jason