Wire coils in wagons

[eastworld]

Are wire coil loads like this - https://www.goodwoodscenics.co.uk/product-page/bulkscene-4mm-strapped-wire-coils-steel-grey-pack-of-10  only a relatively recent sight in open wagons? I can't recall seeing them much before the 1980s. Were they carried in e.g. wooden  opens in British railways (or even before) days? Or maybe they were carried but sheeted over?

Stu

[The Stationmaster]

The question with a load like that always used to be is it wire or is it rod?  The problem was that both could look very similar and the difference was purely down to the way it was produced = so that ;load could be earlier and there were loads like that about in the '70s. (where's BR 2975 when you need him?)

[TheSignalEngineer]

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brplate/h125eca2a

[Fat Controller]

There were LMS Long Lows converted for this traffic in the 1960s. There's a photo on p 59 of 'Working Wagons Volume 2' by David Larkin. They had tall frames at either end and two rows of longitudinal timber baulks for the coils to sit on.

By the mid-1970s, they'd been replaced by converted 13t opens and then 22t fitted Plates. Loads would sometimes be sheeted, depending on customer needs.

[JimC]

5 hours ago, eastworld said:

Were they carried in e.g. wooden  opens in British railways (or even before) days? Or maybe they were carried but sheeted over?

Russell's 'Freight Wagons and Loads" has a 1913 photo of a GWR 10 ton 4 plank open filled with coils of wire. Its a wagon with a sheet supporter, so the load could have been sheeted. The same also shows 42ton bogie opens built at Swindon in 1950 for steel strip in coils.

I also found these photos
 

Edited July 13, 2021 by JimC

[65179]

Those photos show preserved 1501 at Allied Steel & Wire (now Celsa) in Cardiff and date from 1999. More info with John Eyres's photos on Flickr:

 

Simon

 

 

[JimC]

I thought the colours looked suspiciously clear and the locomotive very suspiciously clean, but couldn't imagine a preservation trip to a steelworks! They also look as if they are internal user wagons. 

I'm sure I have seen a BR era photo of a 1500 on steel coil traffic, but didn't find it. Presumably though the stock is reasonably representative for 1999.

[65179]

6 minutes ago, JimC said:

I thought the colours looked suspiciously clear and the locomotive very suspiciously clean, but couldn't imagine a preservation trip to a steelworks! They also look as if they are internal user wagons. 

I'm sure I have seen a BR era photo of a 1500 on steel coil traffic, but didn't find it. Presumably though the stock is reasonably representative for 1999.

 

Yes, the wagons will be internal users. Plenty of photos of similar wagons on Paul Bartlett's wagon site. Some of the John Eyres shots are real history pieces as Celsa have cut back considerably on the amount of track in and around the works since.

 

Simon

[br2975]

The photos above of the 15xx tank were taken during a photographic charter at the then Allied Steel & Wire's Tremorfa Works in Cardiff. Now Celsa (UK)

.

The 'Austerity' tank "Whiston" also took part in the event.

.

The wagons are  internal user wagons, formermerly BR stock, carrying 'reject coils' which, for whatever reason will not be sold, and will be weighed, and melted down, recast as billets and drawn again into wire.

.

ASW despatched wire coils in SEA / SPA wagons with the coils loaded along the wagons, in two rows, on wooden cradles.

.

However, they occasionally dispatched coil loaded in OBA / OCA wagons (not fitted with wooden cradles) where the coil was loaded by an adapted fork lift truck ( which had one long pole instead of two forks)  across the wagon,

.

Before the use of OBA / OCA and SEA / SPA wagons, ASW dispatched wire coils on converted BR 'Plate' wagons; a number of which were later bought by ASW for 'internal use' .

.

I have photos, if anyone is interested.

.

Brian R

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, br2975 said:

The photos above of the 15xx tank were taken during a photographic charter at the then Allied Steel & Wire's Tremorfa Works in Cardiff. Now Celsa (UK)

.

The 'Austerity' tank "Whiston" also took part in the event.

.

The wagons are  internal user wagons, formermerly BR stock, carrying 'reject coils' which, for whatever reason will not be sold, and will be weighed, and melted down, recast as billets and drawn again into wire.

.

ASW despatched wire coils in SEA / SPA wagons with the coils loaded along the wagons, in two rows, on wooden cradles.

.

However, they occasionally dispatched coil loaded in OBA / OCA wagons (not fitted with wooden cradles) where the coil was loaded by an adapted fork lift truck ( which had one long pole instead of two forks)  across the wagon,

.

Before the use of OBA / OCA and SEA / SPA wagons, ASW dispatched wire coils on converted BR 'Plate' wagons; a number of which were later bought by ASW for 'internal use' .

.

I have photos, if anyone is interested.

.

Brian R

Brian,

What's that Bogie Bolster with the extra trussing (the yellow one)? It's not one of those modified for WD service in WW1, is it?

[br2975]

13 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Brian,

What's that Bogie Bolster with the extra trussing (the yellow one)? It's not one of those modified for WD service in WW1, is it?

Brian,

.

Amongst their myriad of different internal users, ASW purchased several ex-BR (and GWR) Bogie Bolster 'C' wagons.

.

The one in the photo appears to be from the batch P177 -P189, and then TOR191-TOR195, initially intended for the carriage of (hot) billets from the Tremorfa Steel Works (TSW) to the Tremorfa bar Mill (TBM) or to Oustide Sites (OSS)..

.

The additional trussing was commonplace, as overloading with (very) hot newly cast billets played havoc with the wagons solebars and underframes.

.

These Bogie Bolster 'C' wagons were mainly painted yellow, as ASW had a simple colour coding of its' internal users, which indicated their intended traffic.

.

In addition, the internal numbers were prefixed, which also indicated their intended sphere of operation. (if the colour coding didn't work).

.

The black liveried 'Plate' wagons were  some of the almost 50 purchased from BR, including 'basic' Plates (mainly BR but one or two ex-LNER) as well as the various coil conversions carried out by BR.

.

The black liveried examples shown, formed a small 'sub-fleet' converted from other ASW duties in January 1997 and renumbered again, to form  CSW61 - CSW64 (CSW = Carrington South Wales, an ASW subsidiary producing specialist wire coil) formerly  B935776, B933019, B932429, B934274 in order, 

.

When ASW went to the wall in 2002 they had a fleet of over 300 internal user wagons; all either ex-BR ( and some pre-nationalisation ) and a number of ex-Private Owners, such as the former ICI / Murgatroyd tanks.

.

Brian R

Edited July 14, 2021 by br2975

[jim.snowdon]

14 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Brian,

What's that Bogie Bolster with the extra trussing (the yellow one)? It's not one of those modified for WD service in WW1, is it?

It's not, although at a distance it is very similar in appearance. Confirmation that it is not one of the GWR 40T bolsters is that it has lever brakes, not the GW Churchward brake.

[hmrspaul]

16 hours ago, br2975 said:

Brian,

.

Amongst their myriad of different internal users, ASW purchased several ex-BR (and GWR) Bogie Bolster 'C' wagons.

.

 

 

 

When ASW went to the wall in 2002 they had a fleet of over 300 internal user wagons; all either ex-BR ( and some pre-nationalisation ) and a number of ex-Private Owners, such as the former ICI / Murgatroyd tanks.

.

Brian R

 

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/alliedsteelwire

 

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brrodcoilksv

 

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoilplate

 

Paul

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

On 14/07/2021 at 23:42, jim.snowdon said:

It's not, although at a distance it is very similar in appearance. Confirmation that it is not one of the GWR 40T bolsters is that it has lever brakes, not the GW Churchward brake.

Jim - it depends on when it was built as the GWR had to cease using the Dean-Churchward brake in order to comply with revised requirements in respect of wagon handbrakes issued by the RCH.  Thus various builds of GWR vehicles can be found with standard ratchet handbrakes althjough older vehicles weren't necessarily altered.

[jim.snowdon]

On 16/07/2021 at 10:46, The Stationmaster said:

Jim - it depends on when it was built as the GWR had to cease using the Dean-Churchward brake in order to comply with revised requirements in respect of wagon handbrakes issued by the RCH.  Thus various builds of GWR vehicles can be found with standard ratchet handbrakes althjough older vehicles weren't necessarily altered.

The Macaws D & E date back to World War 1, being modified from J14 Macaw Bs built a few years earlier. The standard lever hand brakes did not appear on Macaw Bs until the post-1939 J28 design. Other than the China Clay wagons, which had the rather less acceptable DC2 brake (left and right facing handles) I am not aware of any vehicles that were built with the DC brake being refitted with lever brakes.