Smart Meter "Required"

[Northern Electric]

Hey folks,

Just interested to hear people's opinions/experiences on this subject.

 

I am looking to change energy supplier, having been with my current one for about 4 years.   They have been sending me "Book your smart meter installation now" letters on a monthly basis for the last 2 years which go straight in the bin, (but 10/10 for persistence!)   I have noticed on energy comparison sites that almost all new energy deals now state that smart meter installation is "required" for eligibility..

 

Claims of helping you save money and helping us move toward more renewable energy features prominently in the sales blurb, without any explanation as to how they actually achieve either...

Has anyone who had one installed ACTUALLY saved money?  Or is it just another piece of surveillance equipment being sold under the guise of being "greener" ?

 

Any feedback welcome.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Northern Electric

[AndrewC]

We had to "upgrade" a few months back as our existing meters were out of certification. It isn't a big deal and we've not noticed any saving or other strangeness. Basically all it does is send off the readings for you. Nothing more. It doesn't know when you do your laundry or operate the coffee maker. It just gets the raw kwh numbers for gas and electric. Most also have a little gizmo that lets you see your daily/weekly/monthly consumption. Really nothing to be worried about. I think the only way you save money is by actually seeing just how much you are using at any given time. 

 

For me the downside is rather than one bill at the end of the month, they now tick up the charges on a daily basis and debit the payment credit we have. (Ovo is pay in advance but pays out 5% interest which is better than the banks, so we keep a min of £150 in credit) 

[Stubby47]

5 minutes ago, AndrewC said:

Most also have a little gizmo that lets you see your daily/weekly/monthly consumption.

 

This is how they claim to save you money, because you'll see this and turn things off.  If you don't turn anything off (such as wifi router, tv signal booster, electric clocks, land line phone, not to mention fridge/freezer) then the gizmo actually costs you money as it uses power to run.

[jwealleans]

My last supplier gave me a new non-smart meter when I moved my supply.   I'm given to understand that you are within your rights to insist that the smart technology be disabled if you are concerned about data being broadcast.

 

They also don't tell you that if you change suppliers in the future you'll almost certainly have to change smart meters as there are no common standards.

[AndrewC]

1 minute ago, jwealleans said:

My last supplier gave me a new non-smart meter when I moved my supply.   I'm given to understand that you are within your rights to insist that the smart technology be disabled if you are concerned about data being broadcast.

 

They also don't tell you that if you change suppliers in the future you'll almost certainly have to change smart meters as there are no common standards.

The worry about changing meters with suppliers is now a non issue. All smart meters installed over the past 2 year can be used by any of the energy suppliers. 

The only data transmitted is the reading and the meter's ipan number. It's not as if it is transmitting your address or other personally identifiable information. 

[jwealleans]

1 minute ago, AndrewC said:

All smart meters installed over the past 2 year can be used by any of the energy suppliers. 

 

Thank you.   Nice to know common sense prevailed somewhere.

[Reorte]

21 minutes ago, AndrewC said:

We had to "upgrade" a few months back as our existing meters were out of certification.

You shouldn't have had to have a smart meter though. I had to have a new meter last year (fitted just before lockdown) and it's not a smart one.

 

They don't even work everywhere anyway; there's no mobile reception inside my house so no way it could've sent data back if it was a smart one. The man who fitted the meter also said that smart meters keep tripping my model of consumer unit (that was a new one to me).

[APOLLO]

Peak hour charging coming soon. Smart meters were designed for this,

 

Also THIS coming soon.

 

https://www.smartme.co.uk/load-control.html

 

They can stick 'em where the sun don't shine.

 

Brit15

[The Lurker]

we had a smart meter installed about 2 years ago, when our previous meter was life expired, much as in AndrewC's case. Our now doesn't work so I am waiting for a call back from e-on's subcontractors Morrisons to come and check it out - I was told they would either fix it or they may need to replace it. I expect Morrisons to have an issue because they did when they came to install it . I think it was something to do with economy 7. In any case they are currently estimating readings and bills. I also have a feeling it was a smet 1 meter that was installed, despite it only being about 2 years ago.

I am not aware of it saving us any money but I was happy to have it installed as I CBA to crawl into the cupboard under the stairs to read the meters!

[Rivercider]

We had a smart meter here in our flat for a year or so.

It was exciting to watch it turn red when we boiled the kettle, or had the oven and hobs on. I have no idea whether we saved any money as a result, no two years are directly comparable for energy consumption. Then the smart meter ceased to work.

 

My late mother kept getting bombarded with phone calls offering her a smart meter, which she was reluctant to have. Eventually an appointment was made to come to her first floor flat, where they found that because the electric meter is downstairs in the garage a smart meter will not work so that was that. Or you would like to think that was the end of the matter, but she had several more phone calls before they got the messsage,

 

cheers 

[spamcan61]

36 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

Thank you.   Nice to know common sense prevailed somewhere.

Pity about the thousands / millions of meters installed before that date

[spamcan61]

51 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

 

This is how they claim to save you money, because you'll see this and turn things off.  If you don't turn anything off (such as wifi router, tv signal booster, electric clocks, land line phone, not to mention fridge/freezer) then the gizmo actually costs you money as it uses power to run.

The last government propoganda advert I saw on this issue only claimed 'up to' 2% saving . If you want to monitor your electricity consumption then there have been devices available for years that can do that without the hassle of ripping out your existing meter and replacing it with a much more complicated one.

 

such as:-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00JIMQP6Y?tag=switchinglimi-21&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B007W0SQ3Y?tag=switchinglimi-21&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1

 

 

[Reorte]

Just now, spamcan61 said:

The last government propoganda advert I saw on this issue only claimed 'up to' 2% saving . If you want to monitor your electricity consumption then there have been devices available for years that can do that without the hassle of ripping out your existing meter and replacing it with a much more complicated one.

 

But it's so much more convenient! You no longer have that unbearable hassle of very occasionally having to take a meter reading! Think how much better your life will be without that dreadful toil and burden on your time and on your body!

[The Johnster]

I have smart meters from British Gas for Electricity and Gas, having no choice because I am on a prepayment system.  There are pros and cons. but the idea that they help you to reduce your consumption is predicated on the idea that you were being wasteful before having the information provided because you were unaware of what you had turned on; I wasn't, and have been unable to achieve any significant savings over previous consumption anyway, never having been particularly profligrate with my power usage.  The main advantages are that you can closely monitor how many days you have left based on recent usage, and budget for topups accordingly, and that you can top up on line at any time 24/7.

 

The disadvantage is of course that prepayment metering is the most expensive way to buy power, imposed on those who have got behind with their bills and are therefore by definition the least able to afford it.  But as anyone who is poor knows, it is our duty to pay for the lifestyles of the rich, and we are so very happy to do so...

 

Mutter mutter grumble come the revolution brothers mutter mutter...

Edited August 11, 2021 by The Johnster

[Northern Electric]

9 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Peak hour charging coming soon. Smart meters were designed for this,

 

Also THIS coming soon.

 

https://www.smartme.co.uk/load-control.html

 

They can stick 'em where the sun don't shine.

 

Brit15

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but this is EXACTLY the kind of thing that I can see becoming mandatory in the future. Then next thing you know some distant computer algorithm is telling us when we can have a shower or make a cup of tea etc.    It may seem farfetched but, all the technology to make it happen is already in place.  It makes me very uncomfortable

[Northern Electric]

@The Johnster   I've been there and done that with old style card pre-payment meters.  Dark times, literally and metaphorically. Never again (hope to god!).

I suspect anyone who has lived with a prepayment meter will be very well aware of their energy usage and know how to eek the most out of every last penny.  This is partly why I am not keen on the idea of smart meters - any money savings are a result of changes in consumer behaviour, not the meters themselves.  And I have serious questions over the amount of information and control they place in the hands of the energy providers.

For instance, if for whatever reason you miss a payment, can they remotely switch you off?   I've had that done with internet and phone a few times this last year and thats upsetting enough.  I remember on the odd occasion when my card meter DID run out and I wasn't able to get to a shop to top up, having to spend even one evening with no light, heat or computer access was genuinely upsetting.

[The Johnster]

You can’t ‘miss a payment’ if you are on the prepayment tariff, but can with other tariffs of course. 

 

You have a sort of buffer; when the meter goes below £2 you are able to activate an emergency £5 credit, or your gas/electricity goes off, which it does anyway when the £5 emergency credit is used up.  Of course, if you have no cash in your account, there is nothing that can be done to prevent this and they turn you off, but they describe this as customer self-disconnection to make it sound as if they are not doing it and it’s an action you instigate, which is somewhat mendacious.

 

Money is automatically taken from the meter to pay previous debt, so it is possible to ‘disconnect yourself’ (run out) even if you use no gas or electricity at all, and for the meter to keep adding debt after you have ‘self-disconnected’; it works in the same way as the old prepayment token meters but with the advantage of being online.  Of course, if the internet is off, that becomes a disadvantage, you can’t top up your meter, and once the power is off you can’t use the internet even if you’ve paid for it and have to go somewhere you can access wifi, assuming you have a smartphone; your tough luck if you can’t afford a smartphone or that is cut off as well!  It has to be online; you can no longer top up with cash at post offices and PayPoints.  Pernicious system. 
 

In order to be reconnected, you must top up the meter sufficiently to be in credit including the £5 emergency credit before the supply is restored. 
 

As my pension comes in fortnightly and I have a fair idea how much I’m going to use, I put in what I hope is going to be sufficient every pension day, but it is a constant worry especially in winter, and constant monitoring of the meter is necessary.  Sometimes extreme measures are needed the day before pension day, and the temptation to use expensive credit cards, the bane of the poor, is very strong; of course, this way lies disaster.  This is not the fault of the meter of course, it is the fault of the tariff, as I say the most expensive and imposed on the customers who can least afford it; a costly way to be cold in the dark…

 

The government’s cold weather payments to pensioners are a big help (the government recommends that a person my age should maintain their home temperature at 18 degrees)!  And I am lucky in that my flat is quite cosy and easy to keep warm; much rented accommodation is poorly maintained and poorly insulated, and  heating run flat out constantly is needed in cold weather; heating costs alone of over £50 a week in bedsits are not uncommon. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by The Johnster

[alastairq]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Sometimes extreme measures are needed the day before pension day, and the temptation to use expensive credit cards, the bane of the poor, is very strong; of course, this way lies disaster.  

Then it is time to stop concerning oneself over what society thinks [of you or I?}, and use the [financial] legal system to confound the system?

If in a position whereby one's lifestyle is perforce to be as minimalistic as possible...in other words, with little or nothing to lose, I'd be very inclined to use the financial system to upset the system by working towards personal bankruptcy.

The financial system builds in protections [via interest ] against even this, and they don't really want ordinary poor folk to understand BR or go down that route....for it actually is a kick in the face for the whole system..it protects the bankrupt individual, and is very freeing. Guaranteed to set  a poor person free of that financial millstone [or the threat of it?] from around the neck.

Bankruptcy is not limiting in a any serious way, to a hard up individual.

But it is a legal tool to enable the likes of us poor individuals to literally, pee on the whole system.. From a great height.

 

There being, literally, nothing that the financial world can do about it!  Oh dear, what a shame!

 

OK, so there are societal prejudices, more than  Divorce could ever bring about. 

But if not particularly bothered about material lifestyles [because we are poor?] then bankruptcy is quite liberating.

 Quite why society places more store on financial wellbeing [faked or otherwise] rather than ensuring the minimum  basic comforts for the poorer or less able members of that society, I will never know, or tolerate.

[didcot]

I have refused to have Smart meters. Primarily because we have solar panels. We have one of the old spinning disc type electric meters. It will actually stop and go backwards when the supply from the solar panels exceeds the house demands. A digital meter won't do that. I also borrowed a third party meter thing that you clip around the supply cable to show consumption. It showed us using twice as much power as the meter indicated. It turns out it can't tell the difference in electricity coming in from the grid or power going out from the panels. So we would be charged for generating power. Having done some research it seems a lot of people have had a similar experience with Smart meters. 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, didcot said:

I have refused to have Smart meters. Primarily because we have solar panels. We have one of the old spinning disc type electric meters. It will actually stop and go backwards when the supply from the solar panels exceeds the house demands. A digital meter won't do that.

 

You're not really allowed to do that but unless you actually end up with a negative electric bill they won't notice. Anyway it's not your problem to fix the supplier's meter.

I don't know why they don't allow it. It seems a sensible way for it to work.

 

[didcot]

Didn't know that, but the panels came with the house when we moved in.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Northern Electric said:

Has anyone who had one installed ACTUALLY saved money?  Or is it just another piece of surveillance equipment being sold under the guise of being "greener" ?

 

I spent years waiting for one to be put in so I could charge the car off-peak.

Would have saved me about a grand over the last four years.

Just got a message from my current supplier about fitting one but they don't do an off-peak tariff...

[APOLLO]

7 hours ago, Northern Electric said:

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but this is EXACTLY the kind of thing that I can see becoming mandatory in the future. Then next thing you know some distant computer algorithm is telling us when we can have a shower or make a cup of tea etc.    It may seem farfetched but, all the technology to make it happen is already in place.  It makes me very uncomfortable

 

Oh it can be done in other ways.

 

I read an article a while ago which stated certain household appliances that can be switched off at peak loads (washing machines etc) can have mains frequency sensing chips that will shut off the appliance if the mains frequency falls to a set value (under 50 Hz). As grid load increases the frequency falls. Cheap and easy to do though the appliance manufacturers need to get on board with this.

 

Dystopian future.

 

Brit15

[melmerby]

18 hours ago, AndrewC said:

We had to "upgrade" a few months back as our existing meters were out of certification.

Our meters were out of certification years ago.

I originally asked for smart meters, as they seemed at the time as a good idea.

The installer couldn't change the gas meter because it sits on a square of asbestos, so the install was postponed, and postponed and postponed (for years).

 

Then I had another notification that the meters needed changing because of their age (no mention of the previous shenanigans) and we could choose smart or standard. I said standard, haven't heard anything since and that must be 3 years ago at least.

So I still sit here with two out of certification meters and no replacements scheduled.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, melmerby said:

The installer couldn't change the gas meter because it sits on a square of asbestos, so the install was postponed, and postponed and postponed (for years).

 

The problem with our gas meter was that it sits in a box on the ground. Radical I know.