7mm Narrow Gauge question

[Enfys_Rainbow]

Hi all,

 

This is a really daft question, but one I genuinely do not know the answer to.

 

If modelling in 7mm NG (0-16.5), would loco fittings like buffers, whistles etc need to be O or OO gauge?

[Nearholmer]

The gauge is the distance between the rails (16.5mm in this case).

 

The scale in this case is 7mm/ft, commonly called 0 (despite, confusingly, that designation having originated as a gauge, of 32mm between the rails).

 

So, everything has to be to 7mm/ft scale, not 4mm/ft scale, which is what 00 uses. 

 

But, narrow gauge locos generally have smaller components than standard gauge ones, so in a few cases bits of big standard gauge locos in 4mm/ft can be used as bits of small narrow gauge locos in 7mm/ft.

 

At the scale of 7mm/ft, the chosen gauge of 16.5mm represents approximately 2ft 4in, which was actually a pretty rare gauge, but is commonly used to represent gauges of about 2ft to 2ft 6in.

 

Buffers are an interesting question, in that very few narrow gauge railways used side buffers, most used a combined buffer and coupling in the centre. One that famously did, and still does, use side buffers is the Talyllyn.

 

Its all potentially very confusing, but I hope that helps.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Enfys_Rainbow]

It does, thank you. I'm building a freelance 0-16.5 loco and 4mm scale items look too small,  but 7mm look way too big.

 

I was wondering if there was any consensus on what should be used.

[009 micro modeller]

42 minutes ago, Enfys_Rainbow said:

Hi all,

 

This is a really daft question, but one I genuinely do not know the answer to.

 

If modelling in 7mm NG (0-16.5), would loco fittings like buffers, whistles etc need to be O or OO gauge?

 

They should probably be fittings designed for 7mm NG, if these are available. When I used an 00 standard gauge chimney on an 009 loco it looked too big. On the other hand I did manage to cut down an 00 brake standard (mostly just reducing the height) and that looked OK for 4mm NG. The same principles should apply in 7mm.

[Nearholmer]

23 minutes ago, Enfys_Rainbow said:

I was wondering if there was any consensus on what should be used.

 Really, you need to buy or make items that are scale representations of the components of a narrow gauge loco of roughly the type you are building.

 

Something to much beware of is that the size of narrow gauge locos, and items of rolling stock, can vary hugely, even on the same track gauge. Both of the below are 2ft gauge, for instance.

 

 

 

Rishra really is tiny, and you could probably get away with no more than sticking a long chmney and a tall cab on a 00 starter train set loco to make something like her in your chosen format.

 

So, even when freelancing, its a good idea to have the rough dimensions of a particular loco, one about the size you want, in mind.

 

Narrow gauge isn't really one thing, in the same way that standard gauge almost is; its a very wide range of things, of greatly different sizes, on multiple different track gauges. And, its jolly interesting!

 

[laurenceb]

I know it's not very helpful but if it looks right it is right

[ngtrains.com]

Then you could always look at actual narrow gauge detail parts.

I have a good few and am adding more all the time

https://ngtrains.com/shop/product-category/detail-parts/locomotive-detail-parts/

 

[cypherman]

Hi Enfys,

All of the commercially available Narrow Gauge engines and stock I know of use a single mid buffer on the  beam buffer. Occasionally you might find some buffers in the normal standard gauge positions. But from my experience not very often. Some kits and scratch built may differ as in the last picture of these scratch built open wagons.

Edited August 30, 2021 by cypherman

[cypherman]

This second set of pictures shows the Ravenglass and Eskdale railway. And their couplings

[hayfield]

18 hours ago, laurenceb said:

I know it's not very helpful but if it looks right it is right

 

Spot on, track is a prime example. a gauge of 16.5 but 00 sleepers look too big, where as 7 mm look fine. code 75 rail looks too thin, but code 125 too big. Code 100 to my eye looks better

 

As you say if it looks correct may be it is

[Nearholmer]

There are three broad ways of going at narrow gauge modelling:

 

- you can go very heavily freelance, and work on an “if I like it, it’s fine” basis; or,

 

- you can work quite closely to prototype, certainly keeping everything in scale and based firmly on real locos and stock, buildings, track etc, highly plausible, but in a fictional setting (this is by far the most common approach, and is the equivalent of all those invented GWR branch lines that SG modellers love); or,

 

- you can go ‘documentary’, and build an exact scale model of a real place, at a real time (this is even harder work in NG that in SG, because each railway was pretty much unique, and fewer parts are available, but a few people do it, and the results can be really wonderful).

 

Rail size and sleepers are a good case in point, because Peco r-t-r 0-16.5 track is very generic, and Code 100 is way too big to accurately represent most NG rail used historically in Britain, but it works fine, and is certainly a heck of a lot quicker than sourcing, say, scale 35lb/yard FB and making your own track.

 

If you haven’t already, get hold of a copy of “Narrow Gauge and Industrial Railway Modelling Review”, which is the magazine for people deeply into NG. You will then see some incredibly hi-fi work, and adverts from all the specialist suppliers. Also, try to get to ExpoNG next time it’s on, to see some superb modelling, and more cottage industry suppliers than you can dream of.

 

Peter Kazer is an expert ‘documentary’ NG modeller, have a look at this masterpiece:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Enfys_Rainbow]

Thank you all for the very helpful and informative comments, much appreciated. 

[Enfys_Rainbow]

Just to prove the point that @Nearholmer, @009 micro modellerand @laurenceb made above about choosing the items that look right I thought I'd post this to show how right they are.

 

 

Safety valves are 4mm while the whistle is 7mm.

 

Thanks for all the input everyone!