Barmouth Bridge

[corneliuslundie]

BBC "news" story today.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-58517351

I am sure the original bridge did not "lift". It did lift a little and then ran back over the fixed section. But on the whole not a bad piece.

Jonathan

[Oldddudders]

But, as ever, the teredo worm gets all the credit for munching the timbers, a claim which should actually be shared with the gribble. 

[Michael Hodgson]

That article includes a link to another piece "Severn Bridge Tolls cut for the first time" (from £6.70 to £5.60) which isn't accurate.

The tolls were also cut on 15th February 1971 - from 2/6 to 12p.

People who used the crossing regularly remember these things.

[corneliuslundie]

Thanks. I have never heard of the gribble (the Toredo worm obviously has a better PR firm), and I didn't look at the linked article. At £6.70 it must be cheaper to take the train across. I don't remember ever paying anything in the late 1970s.

Jonathan

[NCB]

Think drawbridge in this instant was used in the more general sense of a bridge which opens, rather than the particular sense of one which is raised. Technically the original was a retractable bridge.

Nigel

[Oldddudders]

In 1981 I attended a week's course on speaking and presentation, in Darlington. They didn't serve coffee for breakfast, I recall, but I have no idea what my major presentation might have been about. A chap from the LMR Civils talked about Barmouth Bridge. Once you've been told about the gribble, you never forget....

[ChrisN]

10 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

That article includes a link to another piece "Severn Bridge Tolls cut for the first time" (from £6.70 to £5.60) which isn't accurate.

The tolls were also cut on 15th February 1971 - from 2/6 to 12p.

People who used the crossing regularly remember these things.

 

8 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

Thanks. I have never heard of the gribble (the Toredo worm obviously has a better PR firm), and I didn't look at the linked article. At £6.70 it must be cheaper to take the train across. I don't remember ever paying anything in the late 1970s.

Jonathan

 

I assume you are talking about the old Severn bridge.  There is no toll on the new bridge,

 

[corneliuslundie]

Sorry, I should learn to read. I didn't pay when I crossed the Severn Bridge because I was on a bike./

Jonathan

[Ben B]

I'm interested in seeing how they get on with the bridge repairs; we walked it in mid-August, and it was a right tip.  The metal sections were almost frighteningly rusty, and the woodwork had lots of bodges.

[Ouroborus]

On 11/09/2021 at 22:03, Ben B said:

I'm interested in seeing how they get on with the bridge repairs; we walked it in mid-August, and it was a right tip.  The metal sections were almost frighteningly rusty, and the woodwork had lots of bodges.

 

I was staying at the campsite by the NR yard.  They had some massive pieces of timber stored there.  Seems more like rebuilding than repairs

[corneliuslundie]

I understand that they are replacing the main steel girders, and substituting hardwood for the concrete encased softwood timbers which currently support the bridge, since the toredo worm damage in 1980. A lot of work has already been done in recent years in replacing the upper timbers. But as with Brunel's viaducts, it is a never ending job.

Jonathan

[wombatofludham]

It is a very substantial job they are undertaking, they've sourced hardwood from the Baltics where the original timbers came from and a lot of steelwork is being replaced.  It has all been agreed with Cadw and should give the bridge a secure future for several decades to come.  As a "railway neighbour" (I'm about 500 yds from Fairbourne Station and feel the Earth move every time one of the 97s go past in the night) I'm getting regular circular letters on the works.

One thing that impressed me about the correspondence was the Welsh translation.  I've learned the language and use it nearly every day in what is, outside Fairbourne, still primarily a Welsh speaking area, and instead of the clunky BR era "Bont y Bermo" the bridge has more accurately been translated as "Traphont Abermaw".  Barmouth is one of the few places which has three names - the English Barmouth, the original Welsh Abermaw (the Mouth of the Maw(ddach)) and Y Bermo.  Y Bermo is a corruption of "Abermaw" and led to the English translation as "Barmouth" and is generally not regarded as the official Welsh name for the town, and "Traphont" is the Welsh word for "viaduct", "Bont" being a bridge.  So to a purist "Traphont Abermaw" is a more correct name than "Bont y Bermo".  Didn't stop me buying a model of 37427 even if it triggers my linguistic OCD every time I run it.  I just call it "Bunty". 

[MarkC]

On 11/09/2021 at 09:50, corneliuslundie said:

BBC "news" story today.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-58517351

I am sure the original bridge did not "lift". It did lift a little and then ran back over the fixed section. But on the whole not a bad piece.

Jonathan

It actually swung round a central pivot. Classic "swing bridge".

 

My wife & I, plus the dogs, walked across it, this time last year. We got the little ferry across from Barmouth, (and getting off it via a narrow plank was a bit of a worry for my wife!), then walked round the estuary (seeing the Fairbourne Railway in action) to Morfa Mawddach, crossed the railway & came back across the bridge. Some good craic was had with some of the Orange Army as we crossed - our 2 Cavalier King Charles spaniels seem to be the subject of some great conversation starters! A fabulous couple of hours, which gave us a thirst when we got back into Barmouth, which was suitably quenched  . Highly recommended - and now, SWMBO wants to go back next year & cross it by train!

[MarkC]

On 11/09/2021 at 11:20, Oldddudders said:

But, as ever, the teredo worm gets all the credit for munching the timbers, a claim which should actually be shared with the gribble. 

Meet the gribble!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gribble

[corneliuslundie]

This is the original Barmouth bridge. Definitely not a swing bridge.

 

This was replaced by the swing bridge in 1902.

From Wikipedia: "The viaduct had a 47 feet (14 m) wooden drawbridge near its northern end allowing tall ships to pass upstream.[4] The drawbridge span, which was carried on top of wrought iron piles, opened by tilting and rolling back over the track on four 4 feet (1.2 m) wheels, spaced 50 feet (15 m) apart, and nine steel rollers. "

Jonathan

 

 

[wombatofludham]

31 minutes ago, MarkC said:

It actually swung round a central pivot. Classic "swing bridge".

 

 

The second Barmouth Bridge is the swing bridge, which last swung some years back.  The FIRST Barmouth Bridge was indeed a lift and draw contraption. The current swing bridge dates from a rebuild between 1899 and 1901 following the discovery of corrosion in the supports for the drawbridge. So for the first thirty or so years the viaduct was a peculiar drawbridge contraption.  

(edit) Beat me to it @corneliuslundie

Edited October 10, 2021 by wombatofludham

[Michael Hodgson]

21 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

So for the first thirty or so years the viaduct was a peculiar drawbridge contraption.  
 

... to defend North Wales from the Southerners who speak a different sort of Welsh!!

[corneliuslundie]

It must have been the other way around as it withdrew to the south!

Jonathan

 

 

[NCB]

2 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

One thing that impressed me about the correspondence was the Welsh translation.  I've learned the language and use it nearly every day in what is, outside Fairbourne, still primarily a Welsh speaking area, and instead of the clunky BR era "Bont y Bermo" the bridge has more accurately been translated as "Traphont Abermaw".  Barmouth is one of the few places which has three names - the English Barmouth, the original Welsh Abermaw (the Mouth of the Maw(ddach)) and Y Bermo.  Y Bermo is a corruption of "Abermaw" and led to the English translation as "Barmouth" and is generally not regarded as the official Welsh name for the town, and "Traphont" is the Welsh word for "viaduct", "Bont" being a bridge.  So to a purist "Traphont Abermaw" is a more correct name than "Bont y Bermo".  Didn't stop me buying a model of 37427 even if it triggers my linguistic OCD every time I run it.  I just call it "Bunty". 

 

Glad Bermo is being dumped. It always grated. Not sure that it had much of a history; think it was a rather clumsy attempt at a Welsh version of Barmouth. Believe the original name was Abermawdach, which is readily corrupted into Barmouth. But Abermaw should do.

[Ouroborus]

Just sticking with the anglicised version, why is it pronounced with an 'uth'  rather than an 'outh'?

[corneliuslundie]

You could ask the same question about many place names ending in "mouth": Exmouth, Sidmouth, Bournemouth, Portsmouth.

I don't know.

Jonathan

[johnofwessex]

Fascinating of course that there was a need to allow large ships into the estuary

[NCB]

2 hours ago, Ouroborus said:

Just sticking with the anglicised version, why is it pronounced with an 'uth'  rather than an 'outh'?

It's a fast "outh", which then sounds like "uth".

[NCB]

3 minutes ago, johnofwessex said:

Fascinating of course that there was a need to allow large ships into the estuary

Sailing ships, with tall masts.

[corneliuslundie]

I once saw a sailing boat race start from upstream of the bridge, which needed to be opened for the occasion. And they were leisure vessels, not commercial.

BTW my vague memory is that it was the start of the Three Peaks Yacht Race. Can that have been true?

Jonathan