Paint - what colour and which type for 1907-RCH private owner wagon

[MarshLane]

Evening all,

I am currently building a kit of an end-door fitted 7-plank 1907-designed RCH private owner two-axle wagon.  My thought is to outshop it in Manvers Main livery, but I am struggling to find any reference to the colours.  There is mention the the colliery's wagon fleet in Volumes 5 and 10 of the Keith Turton series, but although I have several of these, sods law is that those two are I do not have.  Can anyone advise?  Looking at other models, it would appear a brown/bauxite kind of livery, but I am loathe to copy models for fear of replicating mistakes.  Any help would be appreciated.

 

In the same vain, this is the first wagon kit I have built so was thinking of using Railmatch Acrylic paints brushed on - but I would be interested to hear from those more knowledgable people who have built and painted kits if there is a better option or one that will give a better finish?  I am going to look and get a spray gun in time, but for now it will be a brush finish.

 

Rich

[brossard]

Hi Rich, can't help you with the livery question.  However, I have built loads of 7mm wagons and always brush on acrylic.  I usually use Tamiya or Humbrol. (I find enamels are too "stiff" for my liking).  I find acrylic goes on nicely although you need to work it to avoid puddles in the crevices.  I even brush painted a coach which came out very well.  I like to use gloss varnish prior to transfers and matte varnish to seal everything.  Varnish also improves the look of the finish.

 

Having said all that, an airbrush would give a better finish.   I tend to use my airbrush for weathering and the odd time when I feel a smooth finish is needed.

 

Some of my wagon builds can be seen in the thread below.

 

John

[melmerby]

This is a Slater's 7mm model:

 

Another version (Slater's again):

 

And the HMRS picture of a later livery (B+W)

[MarshLane]

Hello John/Keith,

Thank you both for taking the time to reply - and to Keith for the images. @melmerby was there any details of when that revised Manvers livery came into being? I am assuming it was probably the 1930s?

 

@brossard - John thanks for the background information on the paints. I'll have a look and see if I can find a Tamiya shade that is relevant.

 

Cheers

Rich

[Steamport Southport]

What shade?

 

What's described as LMS/LNER or early BR Bauxite will probably be closest if you are going for railway colour paints.

 

I bought some Railmatch Enamel of the same colour recently Reference RM235

 

This is the acrylic version.

 

https://howesmodels.co.uk/product/br-early-freight-stock-bauxite-acrylic/

 

The later BR Bauxite is a different shade. A bit browner to my eyes.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/341847/railmatch_paints_rm236_br_freight_bauxite_1960s_15ml_bottle/stockdetail.aspx

 

 

Jason

Edited October 7, 2021 by Steamport Southport
Wrong link

[Mark Forrest]

For a brown livery, I'd be tempted to start with a spray of red oxide from a rattle can; a good few of my freight brown/bauxite wagons are just this followed by a wash over to weather them.

 

After that, my personal preference is for good old Humbrol enamels.  I just don't get on with acrylics which (if nothing else proves there is no right and wrong,  just what works for you.

[brossard]

Just a follow up to Mark's post and some addenda.  I should have mentioned that I always prime my models using rattle cans.  Red oxide for wagons with a brown or red finish.  Grey for wagons with, well grey, blue, green etc. finish.  If your wagon is white, forget about brush painting, I use rattle can white.

 

John

Edited October 7, 2021 by brossard

[MarshLane]

Thanks guys,

I am trying to identify the font used by Manvers on the wagons so that the lettering can be done.   Custom transfers are the likely option, but I wonder if anyone has ever tried creating thick card overlays? One with the wording cut out for the white paint, and another for the shadow detail in black?

 

Rich

[Mark Forrest]

19 minutes ago, MarshLane said:

Thanks guys,

I am trying to identify the font used by Manvers on the wagons so that the lettering can be done.   Custom transfers are the likely option, but I wonder if anyone has ever tried creating thick card overlays? One with the wording cut out for the white paint, and another for the shadow detail in black?

 

Rich

Have you had a look at the POWsides range of transfers?

[MarshLane]

4 hours ago, Mark Forrest said:

Have you had a look at the POWsides range of transfers?

 

I have - which would have been a good choice - but unfortunately their range is only 4mm and 7mm scale.

[MarshLane]

I have had a response from Robert at Powsides, who confirms they cannot undertake transfer resizing at the current time and "We use adapted fonts for our private owner artwork as there are no standard computer fonts available for the correct style of lettering".  So it looks like I am going to be back to trying to find a good side on photo to trace from - I suspect the image provided by @melmerby from the Slaters kit may be the best to use, I am looking for a version of the livery that would have been around in the early 1920s.

 

Rich

[melmerby]

18 hours ago, MarshLane said:

I have had a response from Robert at Powsides, who confirms they cannot undertake transfer resizing at the current time and "We use adapted fonts for our private owner artwork as there are no standard computer fonts available for the correct style of lettering".  So it looks like I am going to be back to trying to find a good side on photo to trace from - I suspect the image provided by @melmerby from the Slaters kit may be the best to use, I am looking for a version of the livery that would have been around in the early 1920s.

 

Rich

No. But anyone could create a TTF of the wagon lettering you need and it would be scaleable.

 

The HMRS picture I linked to, is obviously post 1923 (LMS & LNER)

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by melmerby

[MarshLane]

7 hours ago, melmerby said:

No. But anyone could create a TTF of the wagon lettering you need and it would be scaleable.

 

The HMRS picture I linked to, is obviously post 1923 (LMS & LNER)

 

Hi Keith,

Oh now that is a good idea, not something I have ever done. I'll have to dig further as it could be usable in a few different ways that idea. I am on a Mac here but I think True Type Fonts are valid, if not there will no doubt be something similar.

 

Your HMRS reference caused me to go back and look again - took me about 3 minutes to see the LMS/LNER reference, which as you say, obviously dates it after 1923 ... should have gone to specsavers eh! Honestly, sometimes I just cannot see the wood for the trees!

 

Rich

[melmerby]

On 12/10/2021 at 01:40, MarshLane said:

Hi Keith,

Oh now that is a good idea, not something I have ever done. I'll have to dig further as it could be usable in a few different ways that idea. I am on a Mac here but I think True Type Fonts are valid, if not there will no doubt be something similar.

 

Your HMRS reference caused me to go back and look again - took me about 3 minutes to see the LMS/LNER reference, which as you say, obviously dates it after 1923 ... should have gone to specsavers eh! Honestly, sometimes I just cannot see the wood for the trees!

 

Rich

There are font maker packages for Windows, so likely also for other platforms

 

I did find a standard font that was close but the R would need some modification and the middle of the "M" was short

See this which was created in 5mins with Libre Office Writer using that standard font, "Segoe UI semibold":

It also needs to be fatter.

 

You could use a font like this as a starting point and modify it using a photo as reference

Once created it could then be used with suitable graphics program to make a better match

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by melmerby