Consumer unit and replacement Breaker

[Tony Davis]

I want to say that I have no intention of trying this myself.

 

We had some extra 13 amp sockets put in our kitchen, and when the electrician had gone I noticed that the fridge wasn't working so I checked the breaker thinking that he might have left it "off". It was on, so I called him back. He checked the breaker (newlec VB32) and said it was faulty and would need replacing. The trouble, he went on to say, was that "you can't get those breakers any more and you will need a new consumer unit and breakers, and you should really fit breakers that have rcd's in-built, and they can cost three times more than the standard type"

 

I have looked on the internet and found VB32 breakers available, and we had also had a breaker installed as part of our hybrid car charging pod, so I wondered if what he says is true, or is he just trying to sell me stuff I don't really need?

 

Your thoughts please

 

Tony

[spamcan61]

1 minute ago, 21C1 said:

He's having you on.

Agreed, i'm in the process of buying some new MCBs for my 40+ year old Wylex CU and I wouldn't think newlec would be much different in terms of availability.

[Tony Davis]

Yes, that’s what I thought. Well, thanks both for confirming my suspicions.

[John M Upton]

I have a similar problem, the night storage heaters are not getting any power during the night to store heat (Economy 7 setup, instructions around here somewhere probably in Latin) and a bit of investigation has traced the fault to probably be the breaker in the the CU box that serves the Night Storage Heaters.

 

Whilst the 100A module currently installed (and suspected to be at fault) is no longer made, they can be found either second hand or new old stock but there is a modern still manufactured equivalent that will fit.  Needless to say, an electrician who cannot be bothered to just get the part may well go down the strip it out and all new installation route as that means more readies in his wallet.

 

Check on the face of the duff module for a makers name, part number or model number and do an Ebay or general internet search and you should see they can be found.

[Dave-5-5-7]

Hi, (ex) spark here. It's b***ocks. Most obsolete MCBs are available. Failing that most manufacturers will retro fit. A combined MCB/RCD known as an RCBO isn't any better, the only advantages if you get a fault on one circuit rather than the RCD disconnecting all circuits on that side of the board, only the RCBO will trip. 
Worst case scenario, if all else fails, running the cable from the existing CU through to an external box like the one shown in pic will still meet requirements at a fraction of the cost. We used to use then when altering a circuit and the home owner didn't want the expense of a new board. The regs say that any work we do, must meet current regs, but the rest of the house can be on a 70s board and that's fine. 

 

The only serious recommendations I used to give were if they had a fuse board, with no RCD protection at all, or they had a plastic consumer unit under the stairs. 


 

[John M Upton]

Well, I took the cover off my Consumer Unit just now to see what was what with my Night Storage Heating night time power supply and discovered this:

I think it is fairly safe to say it is FUBAR'd and my friendly sparky is already on his way!

[Nick C]

Just be careful where you get your breakers from - not all of them are as they seem...

 

 

[shady]

One of the reasons that the regs changed from having plastic consumer unit enclosures back to metal enclosures was a number of fires and deaths due to

breakers overheating catching fire and setting the enclosure on fire.

 

4 years ago I lost a relative to just such a fire ("fortunately" at least they died from smoke inhalation whilst asleep (battery taken out of smoke detector the day before due to cooking and not replaced!!!!) , it was the load from electric storage heaters that caused this fatal fire (and others), which is no surprise as they are a large load that can be on for many hours day after day. (obviously breakers that are of the correct rating and properly installed (i.e, no loose connections) should not catch fire/melt, but some have)

 

I only post this as a reminder that life is worth more than money!!!

I would get that sub consumer unit changed for a new one with new breakers (not sure I would bother fitting RCBO's , but might fit a separate RCD just to cover that  sub consumer unit)

 

I am not a sparky , but am happy to work on my own consumer unit , but if any one is in any doubt then leave them alone and call in someone qualified.

Edited October 15, 2021 by shady
formatting

[John M Upton]

Indeed, my brilliant Sparky has already seen the photos and is on the case, literally.  I am going to get him to check the main CU box as well whilst he is here to make sure there are no other nasty surprises...

[Tony Davis]

Well, as we are sharing photo’s …..

[57xx]

4 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Well, I took the cover off my Consumer Unit just now to see what was what with my Night Storage Heating night time power supply and discovered this:

I think it is fairly safe to say it is FUBAR'd and my friendly sparky is already on his way!

 

And that is why current regs state the enclosure must be metal. Way too many house fires due to plastic bodied ones catching fire.

[2E Sub Shed]

 

 

This document provides some information on the subject. 

 

BEAMA Technical Bulletin - Safe Selection of devices for installation in assemblies

 

Note the text that states : -  " In all cases installing devices or components other than those declared by the assembly manufacturer invalidates any testing/certification and warranty. "

[Dave-5-5-7]

7 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Well, I took the cover off my Consumer Unit just now to see what was what with my Night Storage Heating night time power supply and discovered this:

I think it is fairly safe to say it is FUBAR'd and my friendly sparky is already on his way!

And that is why it's best to have them checked regularly. That is most likely caused by a loose connection. A back connection will lead to a high resistance joint, that generates a lot of heat. 

[Dave-5-5-7]

4 hours ago, Tony Davis said:

Well, as we are sharing photo’s …..

three different manufacturers in one board. That is really bad practice. 

[Tony Davis]

The electrician I mentioned in my original post did say that they should all be from a common manufacturer.

The Schneider was fitted by the people that installed the charger for my phev, so I can understand why that would be different, but I assume that the others were put in when the box was installed.

[Dave-5-5-7]

7 minutes ago, Tony Davis said:

The electrician I mentioned in my original post did say that they should all be from a common manufacturer.

The Schneider was fitted by the people that installed the charger for my phev, so I can understand why that would be different, but I assume that the others were put in when the box was installed.

from memory I think Newlec, Volex and Wylex are all the same design, but it's one of those things where even though it fits, it shouldn't really be crossed over. 
As for the board itself, it's probably 10 or 15 years old, it doesn't need to be replaced unless it's under exposed stairs, and even then under BS7671 it's only a recommendation, not mandatory. There is no need to replace the board, although I would look for a more suitable MCB for that board other than Schneider, but that's just my opinion. 

[John M Upton]

Well my friendly sparky just got back to me. Replacing the MCBs and restoring the old CU box is possible but awkward and potentially more expensive than replacement. 

 

Loose connection on the bottom of the 100A MCB was indeed the culprit, whole new metal CU going in at £500 plus VAT.

[david12345]

We aren't allowed to source pre used breakers from the Internet or suppliers in my company, as if they go wrong and go on fire or don't trip in the required time, a "got them from to ebay to help out" excuse isn't going to go down well. 

[Dave-5-5-7]

18 hours ago, david12345 said:

We aren't allowed to source pre used breakers from the Internet or suppliers in my company, as if they go wrong and go on fire or don't trip in the required time, a "got them from to ebay to help out" excuse isn't going to go down well. 

 I used to get them to sign a note stating they understood their CCU was obsolete, they'd rejected the advice to have a new board and that any breaker supplied was null of warranty or guarantee and no liability would be accepted for any damaged caused. That usually convinced them a new board was the way ahead. 

 

[david12345]

2 hours ago, Dave-5-5-7 said:

 I used to get them to sign a note stating they understood their CCU was obsolete, they'd rejected the advice to have a new board and that any breaker supplied was null of warranty or guarantee and no liability would be accepted for any damaged caused. That usually convinced them a new board was the way ahead. 

 

Good call,  a new board is always my preference or at least new breakers. Never pre used.