Fixing brass items to white metal kits

[melmerby]

Hi all

I have done some searching and haven't found what I want, I apologise if it's already been posted.

 

I have been finishing off my M&L twin kit of a 633 & 850 tank engines after many starts and stops over the years!

I've been trying to affix the lamp irons (brass) to the whitemetal body.

I have tried two types of superglue (liquid & gel) neither held them firmly enough to stop them detaching if touched.

 

Then I tried soldering using a 70 degree solder using an iron set to a temperature just below the melt point of some white metal scrap.

Using a flux with the solder I tinned the body & the brass then held them together whilst heated with the iron.

The solder flowed nicely and the joint looked good but once again there was no strength to the joint. Once cool I could easily knock the lamp iron off with little effort.

It looked like the solder doesn't have any strength as both surfaces still had solder on them (it wasn't a dry joint).

I tried a couple more times, same result.

 

Ay suggestions on how to fix brass, reasonably securely, to a white metal casting?

[micklner]

Tin the brass part where it will be joining to the whitemetal part with 145 deg solder .

Then add low melt to the tinned brass area .

I then put a small dot of melted low melt on the whitemeatal part.

Then join the two together adding more flux before heat.

 

Do not dwell too long on the parts with the soldering iron.

 

Practise on scrap first.

[doilum]

Solder a brass pin to the rear of the brass item. Drill the white metal and fix with super glue. Not a universal solution but useful especially for vulnerable items.

[decauville1126]

Carr's 100 solder is available which is specifically available for this. I use it also for brass to brass where it's not too stressful a joint. Very easy to play with and get good fillets.

[TT-Pete]

Araldite

 

[deepfat]

I have some 2 part glue that Westland helicopters  use to glue the 5 sections of tail rotor shafts of the EH101 Merlin helicopter together. It's made by 3M and It really stinks of fish but when I stick a bit of white metal to brass is stays there. Excess can be filed down and there is no melting of anything

[Siberian Snooper]

Another one for tinning the brass first with 145° or higher solder,  I then tin with low melt solder, a dab of liquid flux and then hold the piece in place and a quick in and out with the iron.

 

 

[AndrewJ]

I hope @melmerby you won't mind me jumping in on this thread, but what flux do people find is good for white metal to white metal  or white metal to brass?

Andrew

[micklner]

Pearsons Glass sell a non fumes version, much safer than Carrs etc types . Works very well with normal modelling solder as well.

[Siberian Snooper]

I use " Building O gauge " safety flux,  there may be a thread on here, but I can't do links on my tablet.

 

 

[micklner]

2 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I use " Building O gauge " safety flux,  there may be a thread on here, but I can't do links on my tablet.

 

 

I believe the owner maybe ill?, I used their version before finding their web page down . I now use Pearson's version it is just as good.

[Dava]

I have tinned brass wire with solder paint (Eileens Emporium) then soldered to w/metal stanchions with Carr’s lowmelt solder & flux, successfully.

 

Dava

[melmerby]

Some interesting replies there.

Thanks for the various suggestions.

[Ben Alder]

9 hours ago, AndrewJ said:

I hope @melmerby you won't mind me jumping in on this thread, but what flux do people find is good for white metal to white metal  or white metal to brass?

Andrew

I have been  LA-Co for some years now successfully.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390365255405?hash=item5ae39516ed:g:nt8AAOSwySlaCXge

[41516]

14 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I use " Building O gauge " safety flux,  there may be a thread on here, but I can't do links on my tablet.

 

12 hours ago, micklner said:

I believe the owner maybe ill?, I used their version before finding their web page down

 

 

I believe there was something in the small supplier's section stating the owner was recovering from a stroke.

Edited October 19, 2021 by 41516
grammar

[melmerby]

16 hours ago, Ben Alder said:

I have been  LA-Co for some years now successfully.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390365255405?hash=item5ae39516ed:g:nt8AAOSwySlaCXge

I've found common plumber's flux paste works fine, the description matches that product.

It's left over from doing plumbing jobs with flux free solder. I prefer that to the pre-soldered fittings

 

I did use some special liquid flux with low temp solder on a couple of K's kits but ended up just soldering most of the large bits with electrical solder at high temperature.

I found the soldered joints were stronger. (but non reversible!)

Edited October 19, 2021 by melmerby

[AndrewJ]

Thanks for the suggestions about flux, very welcome. I was on the point of ordering some Carrs acid flux, but now I'll go for one of the safer alternatives.

Andrew

[RobjUK]

On 18/10/2021 at 13:49, AndrewJ said:

I hope @melmerby you won't mind me jumping in on this thread, but what flux do people find is good for white metal to white metal  or white metal to brass?

6% phosphoric acid.

Phosphoric acid rust remover from ebay, diluted by an appropriate amount with deionised water. The bottle I got was 73% so 11:1 for that.

 

A litre bottle of the rust remover costs only about the same as some tiny bottles of ready to use flux, and the rest can be used for making such as paint prep cleaning/etching solutions.

(1L of 85% is presently £13 inc postage, eg. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144196873331 ).

 

Once diluted below 10% it's not considered dangerous. I've used it for some time now for white metal to white metal or white metal to brass soldering, with low melting point solder, and it works very well.

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

On 20/10/2021 at 13:18, AndrewJ said:

Thanks for the suggestions about flux, very welcome. I was on the point of ordering some Carrs acid flux, but now I'll go for one of the safer alternatives.

Andrew

 

I used Carrs until I recently ran out and can't get it without extortionate postage rates.

 

I am going to give the stuff Gaugemaster are selling a try. Also available from places like Hattons, Kernow, etc.

 

It's worth a try. 

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/siteresults.aspx?searchfield=flux

 

 

 

Jason