Advice for starter layout

[Trainnoob]

Hello, I am here because im building a Modern image model railway, i already have a trackmat layout but want to build something a little more exciting with scenery, i just want to have a Digital layout with Decorative OHLE so I can run nice modern Electrics locos, i have no experience in advanced track plans and have very little scenery building knowledge. I don't care about era but want modernish, but i do want a bit of realism, so for example no rocket running with pendolino.  And maybe some space for a Turntable and/or station and yard. 

 

Can someone give me advice on where to start, my maximum size is 12x5 so i can get a few people to lift it on a truck for moving. 

 

I also would like to have a Lake/River seen but willing to sacrifice it as a  compromise. 

 

Can someone give me advice as i have no experience other then with trainsets and basic loco and track maintenance. 

 

Also any Trackplan suggestions are welcome. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Trainnoob
Fix spelling

[Flying Pig]

It would be better to think in terms of what space you have for the layout and build it in sections that could be separated in the event of it having to be moved. 12 x 5 is an awfully big lump to shift without damaging it, but a layout built in sections could easily be bigger if you have the room for it.

[ITG]

Working at arms length across a 12x5 board will be tricky and tiring. How big is the room?

[Trainnoob]

1 minute ago, Flying Pig said:

It would be better to think in terms of what space you have for the layout and build it in sections that could be separated in the event of it having to be moved. 12 x 5 is an awfully big lump to shift without damaging it, but a layout built in sections could easily be bigger if you have the room for it.

Do I need to build special board clips or have special track connectors for that?. 

[Trainnoob]

2 minutes ago, ITG said:

Working at arms length across a 12x5 board will be tricky and tiring. How big is the room?

Sorry for lack of clarification. 

 

I will have a hole in the middle section to help me reach the stuff. 

 

My garage is mid size but my dad needs one side for his car, i dont know how big exactly. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Trainnoob

[Zomboid]

If you can provide a drawing of that (ie where the hole, and any other immovable features may be) then it'll be a good starting point.

 

Though a garage where a car is driven in and out is unlikely to be an ideal environment for a layout, there'll be lots of dust and moisture in the air, especially if the car is parked inside whilst wet.

[The Black Hat]

I would build something like 12ft by 2-3 foot in size and have something that is an end to end layout - along the lines of a depot on the end of a branch or a station nearby too. That way you can build your boards if you want (or buy them) and have the layout in sections that are smaller and easier to transport - if you do want to move it. Something like 3ft by 2 foot boards and have 4 of them to give you the 12ft you need overall. That way it will be much easier to move if you want that. 

My Briganton layout has photos of the boards being made for mine - if thats a help. PM me if you want advice. 

[Trainnoob]

6 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

If you can provide a drawing of that (ie where the hole, and any other immovable features may be) then it'll be a good starting point.

 

Though a garage where a car is driven in and out is unlikely to be an ideal environment for a layout, there'll be lots of dust and moisture in the air, especially if the car is parked inside whilst wet.

In the dead middle board. 

 

Its a hole just big enough to squeeze an average size adult through. 

[Trainnoob]

1 minute ago, The Black Hat said:

I would build something like 12ft by 2-3 foot in size and have something that is an end to end layout - along the lines of a depot on the end of a branch or a station nearby too. That way you can build your boards if you want (or buy them) and have the layout in sections that are smaller and easier to transport - if you do want to move it. Something like 3ft by 2 foot boards and have 4 of them to give you the 12ft you need overall. That way it will be much easier to move if you want that. 

My Briganton layout has photos of the boards being made for mine - if thats a help. PM me if you want advice. 

Would an End to End Branchline look ok with OHLE? 

 

I like this idea, never thought of an "End to End" Before. 

[Harlequin]

Hi Trainnoob,

 

5ft width with a sensible hole right in the middle (2ft6in) only leaves 15inches of baseboard either side, which will be difficult to make work scenically.

 

You could offset the hole to make one side have enough room for a useful trackplan and the other side just a sort of connecting section. The thin connecting section would also be easier to duck-under. A bit like this 10ft * 5ft design: 

 

If the layout was made in sections like everyone here is suggesting then you could perhaps use the garage just as a workshop and then move it somewhere bigger when you want to run it? Maybe even taking over the whole garage temporarily. But bear in mind what Zomboid said about the garage not being the ideal place to keep it permanently. Is there a bigger space where you would be allowed to set up your layout for a few days at a time?

 

There are various different ways of joining sections together so that they always line up properly. Electrical connections are usually done separately from the joining method using plugs, sockets and flying leads.

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Harlequin

[Trainnoob]

Thanks for or the advice, Im going to build a modular baseboard, dont know how big yet exactly, it will be a modular layout set on the northen Part of WCML, possibly a wcml Branch, which apart from the heritage railway Centre with a Turntable, is often overlooked by the trainspotting community. 

 

 

I will be using Hornby elite, not the best but works for me. 

 

Just have to figure out how will modular joins work with OHLE. 

[The Black Hat]

1 hour ago, Trainnoob said:

Would an End to End Branchline look ok with OHLE? 

 

I like this idea, never thought of an "End to End" Before. 

An end to end branch will look ok with what ever you want it to be. There are some that have OHLE for passenger trains to branch lines. You could then have sidings to a depot before you then have a shunter that can pull them onto the depot site. 

One end will have the fiddle yard on a board, then you run into full scenery at the other so you use most space. 

 

I would be tempted to upgrade your controller if you can... best of luck and hope its all rewarding for you. 

 

[AndyB]

Might you consider having a somewhat narrower layout consisting of a central scenic section with turn around loops at each end and a fiddle yard to the rear? 

Roughly it'd take a couple of feet off at each end - some of which could still be scenic? 

Thus would have the benefit of a continuous run, manageable size etc. 

You might also consider not representing all of a station, but imply the other half is tucked beyond a scenic break, e.g. a road?

A bit like this?

 

Good luck with your endeavour.

Andy

 

[Trainnoob]

I found a layout track plan, its not an end to end, but it does look relatively easy for my space and looks nice, will make a few Adaptions.

[DCB]

Have a look at the Old C.J Freezer 60 plans for small railways (etc) series books.  You  can't get that 10ft X 6ft into 5' X 12'.  The top two tracks and the top platform has to go and the whole layout pushed down 3" to allow space for the second platform down and the blue lines connected to make a circle but you can get a 2ft extra section into the long sides.

You can almost never make a layout plan smaller along any axis.   Much better is to find a smaller layout plan and enlarge it, maybe extend a 8 X 4.  

Have a look at the Old C.J Freezer 60 plans for small railways (etc) series books.

Most people these days have a scenic part of the layout and a non scenic fiddle yard.  That way you have somewhere to swap trains and engines over without knocking signals over or the roof off the signal box let alone thread stuff through the OHLE. Pre DCC people put hidden sidings under the scenic bits but modern Steam outline locos don't pull like the old ones so the gradients needed have to be excessively long at around 1in 50.   Modern Diesels and Electrics however do pull very well so the good old CJF plans with duck unders and reverse loops work for modern image. 

You are short of width so using Set Track points and set track 60 mm plus spacing instead of streamline 52mm is not a good idea.  Set track 3rd and 4th radius curves are good where space is limited, flexi tends to dog - leg under 2ft radius.   24" width is tight as an operating well, 30" better.  As others have said make the baseboards sectional,   5X2 ends and 6X  18" for the long sides.   

Edited October 18, 2021 by DCB

[Trainnoob]

4 minutes ago, DCB said:

Have a look at the Old C.J Freezer 60 plans for small railways (etc) series books.  You  can't get that 10ft X 6ft into 5' X 12'.  The top two tracks and the top platform has to go and the whole layout pushed down 3" to allow space for the second platform down and the blue lines connected to make a circle but you can get a 2ft extra section into the long sides.

You can almost never make a layout plan smaller along any axis.   Much better is to find a smaller layout plan and enlarge it, maybe extend a 8 X 4.  

Have a look at the Old C.J Freezer 60 plans for small railways (etc) series books.

Most people these days have a scenic part of the layout and a non scenic fiddle yard.  That way you have somewhere to swap trains and engines over without knocking signals over or the roof off the signal box let alone thread stuff through the OHLE. Pre DCC people put hidden sidings under the scenic bits but modern Steam outline locos don't pull like the old ones so the gradients needed have to be excessively long at around 1in 50.   Modern Diesels and Electrics however do pull very well so the good old CJF plans with duck unders and reverse loops work for modern image. 

You are short of width so using Set Track points and set track 60 mm plus spacing instead of streamline 52mm is not a good idea.  Set track 3rd and 4th radius curves are good where space is limited, flexi tends to dog - leg under 2ft radius.   24" width is tight as an operating well, 30" better.  As others have said make the baseboards sectional,   5X2 ends and 6X  18" for the long sides.   

I will need to look out for that book. 

 

My max is 12x5 but i can go smaller, i like the idea of a fiddle yard, but i was gonna make a scene on both sides and have a Mini-fiddle yard hidden between back scenes, (Will be in a place I can reach) For rerailing locos away from Ohle. 

[RobinofLoxley]

Beware Anyrail. It is a great tool but it encourages you to produce plans that are too complex with too much track for the space available.

[Trainnoob]

19 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

Beware Anyrail. It is a great tool but it encourages you to produce plans that are too complex with too much track for the space available.

I don't use anyrail, i found this plan on Pinterest. 

[33C]

FWIW, lay down an oval, loose, in the space you have, run a train, get a feel for the area you have then move it about. Diagonally, closer one end or the other, long or shorter. Keep it free. Then, perhaps, use templates made from card of the track elements you have to fill the space (or not) for radii, siding/loop length, clearances etc. Raid the larder of tins (oil storage tanks etc) and packets (buildings etc) for scenic elements and place them around the board. Much better to visualize in 3D before committing to the glue! This will give a good overall picture of what the board space can accommodate in your chosen scale/gauge. Mirrors glued to the back wall will give added depth and can be partially covered to make that end on siding disappear into itself! Or......drag the duvet off the bed, lay it on the board, scrunch it up like real topography and place track on top to give a feel for dramatic scenery. 

[RJS1977]

1 hour ago, RobinofLoxley said:

Beware Anyrail. It is a great tool but it encourages you to produce plans that are too complex with too much track for the space available.

Not if you use the free version with the 50-item limit!

[RJS1977]

You might be able to gain a little more space if your father is prepared to drive forwards into the garage and reverse out - this would allow a board to reach over the bonnet, which would be suitable for sidings/loco yard or possibly even a small terminus.

 

(Thinking about it the loco yard might be best as there would be no need to uncouple, only to change points, which could be done electrically without leaving the operating well)

[DavidB-AU]

8 hours ago, Trainnoob said:

My max is 12x5 but i can go smaller,

 

When you say your max is 12x5, can you be more specific? A layout like the one depicted will need 2' of access space around all sides, so the amount of floor space you actually need is more like 16 x 9. Without this amount of floor space you will find it difficult to build, difficult to operate and it will be an endless source of frustration rather than enjoyment.

 

Rather than a solid slab roughly the size of two double beds, I would strongly suggest making it sectional. There are many benefits to this - easier to build, easier to access for construction and operation, easier to transport when necessary (and truly portable if you ever want to exhibit it), doesn't need to be assembled all the time, can be expanded in future if you get more space, can be much more easily modified in future, etc. The other problem with big solid layouts is the temptation to cram in as much track as possible. For modern image it would be more prototypical to have as little track as possible, only as much as needed for the intended traffic. A modern station is unlikely to have a turntable. Sometimes (actually quite often) less is more - look at any layout by Ian Futers.

 

If 12x5 is the absolute maximum floor space you have available, you're going to have trouble working this layout if you can't access all sides. Plus it looks a bit ambitious for a beginner layout. You'd be better off starting with something simple where you can access everything from inside, and make at least part of it removable when it's not in use. Either a continuous run or U shape terminus to fiddle yard with at least one side removable when not in use. The removable side could be a non-scenic fiddle yard to prevent damaging scenery.

 

Here are some indicative sectional designs based on 12" wide boards with a 3' access space between them.

 

 

 

The end to end version even with 12" wide boards could easily fit a 2 or 3 platform modernish terminus at the end of a double track line that would be operationally interesting. Go with the prototype. Think of places like Shoeburyness or Lowestoft with a reduced number of sidings, a shorter version of Bradford Forster Square, a slightly narrower version of Llandudno, Morecambe or look at layouts such as Ripper Street (a variation on Minories) and Newcastle Haymarket. Not all are electrified but that style of station would work and fit.

 

The continuous run would allow a double track with some storage sidings on one side and a main line station on the other side. A station doesn't need to be complex to have a lot of traffic and be interesting. Again go with the prototype and think of places like Cheltenham Spa, Brighouse, Grimsby Town, Halifax, Morpeth (with some of the sidings), Royston (including the Down Loop and Sherriff's siding), Alderley Edge or Craven Arms. Again not all are electrified but you can see the concept. Possibly something based on Hertford North which can have through and terminating trains (maybe 1 or 2 storage sidings) and diversions off the ECML.

 

Plenty of scope for a river close to the station - think Welwyn North or Berwick-upon-Tweed.

 

And remember, each layout is only a practice for the next one so you don't need to cram everything into a starter layout. 

 

Cheers

David

Edited October 19, 2021 by DavidB-AU

[Trainnoob]

6 hours ago, DavidB-AU said:

 

When you say your max is 12x5, can you be more specific? A layout like the one depicted will need 2' of access space around all sides, so the amount of floor space you actually need is more like 16 x 9. Without this amount of floor space you will find it difficult to build, difficult to operate and it will be an endless source of frustration rather than enjoyment.

 

Rather than a solid slab roughly the size of two double beds, I would strongly suggest making it sectional. There are many benefits to this - easier to build, easier to access for construction and operation, easier to transport when necessary (and truly portable if you ever want to exhibit it), doesn't need to be assembled all the time, can be expanded in future if you get more space, can be much more easily modified in future, etc. The other problem with big solid layouts is the temptation to cram in as much track as possible. For modern image it would be more prototypical to have as little track as possible, only as much as needed for the intended traffic. A modern station is unlikely to have a turntable. Sometimes (actually quite often) less is more - look at any layout by Ian Futers.

 

If 12x5 is the absolute maximum floor space you have available, you're going to have trouble working this layout if you can't access all sides. Plus it looks a bit ambitious for a beginner layout. You'd be better off starting with something simple where you can access everything from inside, and make at least part of it removable when it's not in use. Either a continuous run or U shape terminus to fiddle yard with at least one side removable when not in use. The removable side could be a non-scenic fiddle yard to prevent damaging scenery.

 

Here are some indicative sectional designs based on 12" wide boards with a 3' access space between them.

 

 

 

The end to end version even with 12" wide boards could easily fit a 2 or 3 platform modernish terminus at the end of a double track line that would be operationally interesting. Go with the prototype. Think of places like Shoeburyness or Lowestoft with a reduced number of sidings, a shorter version of Bradford Forster Square, a slightly narrower version of Llandudno, Morecambe or look at layouts such as Ripper Street (a variation on Minories) and Newcastle Haymarket. Not all are electrified but that style of station would work and fit.

 

The continuous run would allow a double track with some storage sidings on one side and a main line station on the other side. A station doesn't need to be complex to have a lot of traffic and be interesting. Again go with the prototype and think of places like Cheltenham Spa, Brighouse, Grimsby Town, Halifax, Morpeth (with some of the sidings), Royston (including the Down Loop and Sherriff's siding), Alderley Edge or Craven Arms. Again not all are electrified but you can see the concept. Possibly something based on Hertford North which can have through and terminating trains (maybe 1 or 2 storage sidings) and diversions off the ECML.

 

Plenty of scope for a river close to the station - think Welwyn North or Berwick-upon-Tweed.

 

And remember, each layout is only a practice for the next one so you don't need to cram everything into a starter layout. 

 

Cheers

David

12x5 is the maximum i can do well having enough floor space. I know placing baseboards and track on all the space is a pretty bad idea. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Trainnoob

[Harlequin]

Hi,

 

You mentioned realism and advanced track plans in your OP but that track plan you got from Pinterest doesn't seem to be either of those things.

 

So what is it about that track plan that you like? Edit: If we know what you like about that plan maybe we can suggest more advanced, more realistic ways to do it.

 

(I know virtually nothing about OHLE but I suspect that it doesn't work well with very small radius curves, BTW.)

 

About the size of the layout: How much space is available to you in the garage? Ignore baseboard sizes and shapes for now.

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Harlequin

[Trainnoob]

46 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Hi,

 

You mentioned realism and advanced track plans in your OP but that track plan you got from Pinterest doesn't seem to be either of those things.

 

So what is it about that track plan that you like?

 

(I know virtually nothing about OHLE but I suspect that it doesn't work well with very small radius curves, BTW.)

 

About the size of the layout: How much space is available to you in the garage? Ignore baseboard sizes and shapes for now.

 

About 15x8

 

I meant realism when I comes to trains, like having massive Era gaps in trains, but i don't worry to much about track for now. I really want a round layout to be able to run trains without stopping, even if i have to sacrifice a few things. 

 

I also said I have no experience in advanced track plans.

 

As for the DCC, i am probably gonna go with a Gaugemaster prodigy, because it's look better for Dcc sound which is what i want eventually. 

 

The Elite doesn't seem to be good for that based of what i have been told from other sources. 

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Trainnoob