Inter-city Executive trains 1984/5

[nightstar.train]

I found the below timetable for 1984/5. I'm rather curious about the weekday 0945 Euston-Glasgow train. It's the Royal Scot and is marked as being "Inter-City Executive". What exactly did this mean at this time? Was it a higher quality train, or was it more akin to Pullman service? Also what would the stock be on this service at the time? It's well before the DVTs i know. So probably Mk3 seated vehicles, Mk1 catering and a Mk1 BG? 

Edited October 26, 2021 by nightstar.train

[Bomag]

The 07:45 and 09:45 would have been one of the two refurnished Mk3a sets in IC-E livery. The stock would be  from RUB/RFB 10015, 10018 - FO 11011, 11018, 11023, 11024, 11026 , TSO 12045/56/135/141/149/163, NEA (Mk1 BG) 92024/31/46/111/146.  I am not certain about WCML services but the ECML IC-E services had at seat 1st service whereas others didn't by default.

 

[nightstar.train]

Looking at the other side which gives the Glasgow - London times it seems there were 3 services in each direction that were Inter-City Executive. The 0745, 0945 and 1650 from London, and the 0910, 1310 and 1710 from Glasgow. looking at the timings either of the 2 morning services from London arrive in time to form the 1710 from Glasgow*, and the 0910 from Glasgow can form the 1650 from London. So they must have had 4 sets of stock in the new livery.

 

 

*I'm assuming that the train couldn't be turned around in 4 minutes as the 0745 from London should arrive at 1306, just before the lunchtime Executive service from Glasgow.

[Bomag]

No they only had two refurbished sets sets by the end of 1984. By the end of 1985 they had done between 1/4 and 1/3 of the Mk3a WCML fleet, a bit of a waste for the RUB/RFB. From the 1986 diagrams the 1310 from Glasgow was a Mk3a Upperby set - the 0945 from Euston was a Willesden set and returned as the 1710.

 

 

[hexagon789]

In May 1984, concurrent with the timetable change, the LMR launched 110mph running.

 

As part of this two Euston-Glasgow services were accelerated and branded as 'Executive' services.

 

These two workings each way comprised:

 

From Euston -

0945 Royal Scot (calling Preston & Carlisle), taking 5hrs 05

1650 Glasgow Executive (calling Preston, Lancaster & Carlisle), taking 5hrs 05

 

From Glasgow -

0910 Royal Scot (Carlisle & Preston), 5hrs 03

1710 Glasgow Executive (Motherwell, Carlisle, Lancaster, Preston & Crewe), 5hrs 15

 

The trains were formed as weight-restricted sets of Mk1 NEA (BG), 2 Mk3A FO, Mk3A RUB, 5 Mk3A TSO

 

These particular "Executives" had an improvement over the existing offering on HSTs - at-seat trolley service in both Second and First Class.

 

For the launch only one Mk3A had been refurbished to "Executive" standards, but by October two full sets had been treated. This included altering the TSOs to seat 76 passengers.

 

In May 1985, the timetable was modified further as all Euston/Glasgow services became timed for 110mph running.

Edited October 27, 2021 by hexagon789

[Bomag]

1 hour ago, hexagon789 said:

These particular "Executives" had an improvement over the existing offering on HSTs - at-seat trolley service in both Second and First Class.

 

 

ECML HSTs had a trolley service on many services. ICE services was supposed to have an 'at seat' service in 1st. This is proper cups, food brought from the kitchen (if not a full meal - which was silver service). Given how long ago it was I cannot remember when the food became included in the ticket cost. 

[hexagon789]

4 minutes ago, Bomag said:

 

ECML HSTs had a trolley service on many services. ICE services was supposed to have an 'at seat' service in 1st. This is proper cups, food brought from the kitchen (if not a full meal - which was silver service). Given how long ago it was I cannot remember when the food became included in the ticket cost. 

Originally yes, then they were withdrawn after only a year or so as I recall.

 

Then brought back in First Class on Executive services, then in Second Class as well on the LMR Executives and eventually to both classes on other routes.

Edited October 27, 2021 by hexagon789

[nightstar.train]

Didn’t manage to attach the Glasgow - London timetable to my earlier post. As you can see there are definitely 3 trains in each direction marked as ICE, so needing 4 sets. They must have used the 2 refurbished sets and 2 unrefurbished sets. I guess they tried to get 4 sets ready for the timetable change but didn’t manage it. 

[hexagon789]

1 hour ago, nightstar.train said:

Didn’t manage to attach the Glasgow - London timetable to my earlier post. As you can see there are definitely 3 trains in each direction marked as ICE, so needing 4 sets. They must have used the 2 refurbished sets and 2 unrefurbished sets. I guess they tried to get 4 sets ready for the timetable change but didn’t manage it. 

 

I've had a look at both the full timetable and the carriage marshalling books.

 

The 0745 off Euston and 1310 off Glasgow, in addition to the previously mentioned two workings each way, are marked with a 'P' in the header. The notes describe this as denoting a Pullman or Executive service, this is described as offering enhanced at-seat First Class catering but no difference between the two designations is given.

 

Switching to the carriage workings, only the 0745 and 1650 from Euston and the 0910 and 1710 from Glasgow are marked as 110mph and booked for all Mark 3 stock plus Mk1 NEA.

 

The 0745 off Euston and 1310 from Glasgow both have a Mk2F FO marshalled between the catering vehicle and the Mk3 FO in the sets acting as restaurant car and these two sets do not inter-operate with each other, forming separate diagrams and having slightly different formations.

 

So yes, 3 Executive services each way, but only 2 are 110mph and using 'Executive' train sets.

 

Worth noting that in the following year's timetable (May 1985) when all Glasgow services became 110mph timed all-Mk3 sets, none are marked Executive or Pullman anymore, such services are restricted to essentially Liverpool/Manchester plus one Wolverhampton working.

Edited October 27, 2021 by hexagon789