S Scale in 3D - whats on the computer.

[Timber]

All,

 

We had a great Zoom meeting yesterday evening where many different models were shared.  There appears to be an increasing interest in 3D printing.  I propose that we have a section for "what is on the computer" where anyone working on artwork in either 2D or 3D can drop in some screenshots.   Once the artwork becomes a proper 3D solid then we should move the discussion to "whats on the workbench" but this may be a good space to share ideas.

 

In my opinion S Scale is the perfect scale for 3D printing.   It is large enough to avoid too many thin wall problems but not so large that some of the irregularities of 3D printing are amplified and detract from the finish of the model. 

 

So I will kick this off with a couple of screen shots on my Manning Wardle reworked with additional detail.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Timber

[Rosedale]

This is excellent! I really enjoyed our group discussion last night and agree this is the way to go. Although we are going to be using many different programmes, there are clearly common elements and we can share the various different solutions . The I class is looking excellent. And that is a good point you make about S being ideal for 3D - we are really benefiting from this technology.

[Regularity]

1 hour ago, Rosedale said:

agree this is the way to go

Really? The way?

A way, surely, for those who wish to follow this route: another tool in the chest, but nothing mandatory.

[Hando]

5 hours ago, Timber said:

All,

 

We had a great Zoom meeting yesterday evening where many different models were shared.  There appears to be an increasing interest in 3D printing.  I propose that we have a section for "what is on the computer" where anyone working on artwork in either 2D or 3D can drop in some screenshots.   Once the artwork becomes a proper 3D solid then we should move the discussion to "whats on the workbench" but this may be a good space to share ideas.

 

In my opinion S Scale is the perfect scale for 3D printing.   It is large enough to avoid too many thin wall problems but not so large that some of the irregularities of 3D printing are amplified and detract from the finish of the model. 

 

So I will kick this off with a couple of screen shots on my Manning Wardle reworked with additional detail.

I'm fascinated...

What class is the engine?

[Rob R]

Ok. I shall add my tuppence worth.

1923 RCH 7 Plank Mineral

Still evaluating the best way of printing open wagons on the Elegoo Mars 2 Pro but we are (to mis-quote 1970's BR advertising) "Getting There".

[apl31]

Excellent idea.

I have attached my contribution. It is a LNWR coal tank with original sloping smokebox front. I think this will just be a test of what is possible. I think I will actually build something simpler as my first build.

This was drawn in Freecad.

[flubrush]

Just to keep up with all the others,  here's my mineral wagon in Solid Edge :-

 

 

 

This is in the Assemble function in Solid Edge,  where you start with a base part and add all the other parts to it.  The base part is the "bodysides-01.par" at the top of the list on the left and the other parts are added to it.

 

I'm still experimenting with how best to print this.    The sides are 0.6mm thick so they are quite flexible when printing.   I had one pretty successful print in 2019 - at 45 degrees orientation - but it had a floor.    The body was very light so I am now trying to print with no floor,  the intention being to add a floor of 48 thou or 64 thou brass or nickel silver to add weight to the wagon.  The intended underframe is the Rumney Models underframe.

 

I'm just about to try some more experiments at different orientations to see if I get success.  The main problem is that in a lot of the orientations,  the fine angle work and door strips have to be supported and that gives a knock-on of cleaning off support marks which is not too easy on fine 0.2mm angle edges.

 

I've heard it said that the key to success in 3D printing is getting to know a 3D CAD package.  I would suggest that it is more like learning how to orientate and support in the slicer. ;-)

 

Jim.

Edited November 13, 2021 by flubrush

[Rob R]

I have stopped work on the RCH Mineral for now as I need to investigate a different way of overcoming the suction issue during printing.

I had got round it by just leaving a plank out of the floor but that seems a bit messy, so rather than rehash what I had done already I have moved on to the next project so I can try some new ideas from scratch.

The plan is to print the sides and ends with headstocks and do a separate unit with the floor and solebars.

Hot off the (virtual) press is the upper works of a Great Northern 4 Plank open.

Late enough now, bed time.

 

Rob 

[flubrush]

Rob,

 

One thing I have noted when printing the sides and ends of my 16T mineral wagon is that the bottom of the sides tends to warp in places even when leaving everything on the supports when hardening.   I'm trying some thickening of the sides - from 0.6mm to a tapered 0.8mm to 0.6mm from bottom to top to see if the increased thickness at the bottom might might improve matters.  I'm also looking at inserting a nickel silver floor in place before curing to see if that improves matters.   The tops of the sides seem to be OK so the top angle seems to be doing the job it was doing on the prototype. :-)

 

Jim.

[Rob R]

Jim,

Have you thought of putting a small flange on the inside at the bottom to stiffen it? Something about 0.2 thick x 1.0 wide. Could also act as a locator for the floor or even be sacrificial?

Just trying to think outside the (mineral) box.

 

Rob

[flubrush]

2 hours ago, Rob R said:

Jim,

Have you thought of putting a small flange on the inside at the bottom to stiffen it? Something about 0.2 thick x 1.0 wide. Could also act as a locator for the floor or even be sacrificial?

Just trying to think outside the (mineral) box.

 Rob,

 

There is a small flange there at the moment which goes to represent the fillet created at the bottom of the sides and fixed end as shown in the Charles Roberts drawings I'm working from :-

 

 

...which probably doesn't add too much strength - its cross section is an isosceles triangle with 0.6mm equal sides.  But it will supply a stop against which the metal floor will fit.   I've just ordered up some 1.2mm and 1.6mm nickel silver sheet which I should get next week to use for the floors.  1.2mm is my preferred thickness but I'm getting the 1.6mm option in case the increase in weight is not enough with the 1.2mm floor.   I'll cut the floor on the CNC mill to get it accurate without much sweat :-) . and I will try cutting the floor joint lines with an etching cutter.

 

I've re-drawn the sides with an 0.8mm to 0.6mm inside taper on the sides to try that thickening of the sides and I've also got the option to go further,  maybe up to a 1mm to 0.6mm taper.  I'm also learning a lot more about Solid Edge in the process.  It provides two methods of working - "Ordered", which looks as though it is equivalent to the way Fusion 360 works and allows you to adjust models by altering the original sketches and "Synchronous" which provides editing on the finished 3D models.  The more modern "Synchronous" method is the preferred method in all the tutorials and finding out about all the "Ordered" methods is a bit difficult to extract from all the tutorial material available - but I'm getting there. :-)

 

Jim.

[Rob R]

Jim,

A couple more thoughts.

You had a successful print earlier with a floor so how about something like the attached sketch. Sacrificial floor braces (red bits) as part of the drawing rather than slicer supports, chamfered at the ends so they break out easily. Shape, quantity and width as required.

 

The other thought is have you tried curing in water?  The curing process is exothermic and you can get a lot of localized heat stress.

I use a handy glass recepticle, just about wagon sized (jam jar!) filled with plain corporation pop.

 

My understanding is that as well as keeping the print cool the water also diffuses the UV a bit and spreads it around more evenly.

 

Onwards and upwards

 

Rob

Edited November 19, 2021 by Rob R
Spelling and grammar.

[Timber]

Less exciting topic but I have an STL for 9 spoke wheels that fit our society 3'7" tyres.   I can provide these wheel inserts with any number of spokes.   I wanted to share the STL but that is not possible via RMWeb.  Does anyone have an idea of where I could save my 3D prints so that other members can down load them?

 

I have squeezed the maximum number of wheels on for a Shapeways print but the file can be edited for smaller print plates.   

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Timber

[Rob R]

Michael,

The topic of wheels is no less exciting than anything else here - especially 3d printed wheels.

 

Stephen Rabone's Sscalelist email group (Groups.io) might a possible location if it's ok with Stephen.

 

I know the Broad Gauge Society's e-group (also on Groups.io) has a folder for sharing print files - although there isn't actually anything in it at the moment - so I presume it can cope with .stl files.

 

Paul was going to ask our (SSMRS) webmaster (Andy May?) about a place on the SSMRS website where files could be downloaded from but I suspect that they would only be able to be uploaded by the webmaster.

 

Rob

[flubrush]

Rob,

 

I'll try something like that to see if that solves the problem.  I've been thinking about something like that since I remember a thread on RMWEB some time ago when people were mounting rolling stock bodies with no floors on disposable sub-frames to avoid the sides distorting,  but I haven't found it yet.  I haven't tried any more printing so far since I've been getting more involved in the finer points of working with Solid Edge. :-)

 

Jim.

[steverabone]

On 19/11/2021 at 13:35, Rob R said:

Michael,

The topic of wheels is no less exciting than anything else here - especially 3d printed wheels.

 

Stephen Rabone's Sscalelist email group (Groups.io) might a possible location if it's ok with Stephen.

 

 

I can see no reason for files like this not to be stored on the S Scale List website. It is a closed forum so secure enough

Contact me direct for the link.

Stephen Rabone

 

 

[steverabone]

On 12/11/2021 at 20:20, Regularity said:

Really? The way?

A way, surely, for those who wish to follow this route: another tool in the chest, but nothing mandatory.

 

I don't think that Rosedale was suggesting that this is THE way (your emphasis not Rosedale's). What I took it to mean was that this was the way to go for those who wish to pursue 3D printing.

 

Perhaps you should  un-embrace your inner pendantry!!!!!!

Edited November 23, 2021 by steverabone

[steverabone]

On 12/11/2021 at 18:46, Rosedale said:

This is excellent! I really enjoyed our group discussion last night and agree this is the way to go. Although we are going to be using many different programmes, there are clearly common elements and we can share the various different solutions . The I class is looking excellent. And that is a good point you make about S being ideal for 3D - we are really benefiting from this technology.

 

I can't help but feel that we S Scale modellers are a lucky bunch as we all have to plough our own field and recognise that there are many ways to achieve our goals ranging from my low-tech card modelling and even lower-tech chassis building up to the hi-tec 3D printing pioneers. It's a wonderful time to model in S Scale and one where (I hope) we recognise each others achievements.

 

I doubt I will ever get into 3D printing but who knows.....

[Regularity]

18 hours ago, steverabone said:

 

I don't think that Rosedale was suggesting that this is THE way (your emphasis not Rosedale's). What I took it to mean was that this was the way to go for those who wish to pursue 3D printing.

 

Perhaps you should  un-embrace your inner pendantry!!!!!!

<sigh>

Humour doesn’t always carry, does it?

 

On the note of pedantry, you think you know what Paul was suggesting, but you can’t know what he was thinking, as without just a few more words, such as …[way to go] “for those who wish to share” neither of us know for sure, hence my teasing of him. 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Regularity
Pedantry

[Rob R]

The modified design for the GNR 4 plank with an internal brace. This will be cut out, probably before curing. The pictures don't show but there is a member lengthways down the centre

I know, the slicer screenshot should be in the other thread...........

Edited November 24, 2021 by Rob R

[Rob R]

On 12/11/2021 at 21:11, Hando said:

I'm fascinated...

What class is the engine?

Hando,

It is a Manning Wardle Old Class I.

 

R

[Hando]

13 hours ago, Rob R said:

Hando,

It is a Manning Wardle Old Class I.

 

R

Lovely,

Carry on the great work!

 

Alex

[Timber]

This is my latest engine a Manning Wardle De Winton...

[Rob R]

Want one already (West Midlands Railway Nos 32 and 33, later GWR 278 and 279, E B Wilson of 1855).

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Rob

[Rob R]

Timber,

If you need any test prints give me a shout.

I am a lot cheaper than Shapeways..

 

Rob