Early LMS fitted vans, 9ft wheel base - brake gear arrangement?

[BenL]

I'm keen to model a few early LMS fitted vans, with a 9ft wheel base, specifically from diagrams 1663, 1664, or 1676, in LMS condition (ie not unfitted versions of these vans that were subsequently fitted by BR). 

 

I've not been able to find photos that show how the brake gear was arranged on each side - I've been assuming that there was a set of brakes on each side but I'm not sure what way around they went. The best photo I've found so far is plate 57 in Essery's An Illustrated History of LMS Wagons - this shows a fitted d1663 van and is taken from an angle from which I would expect to be able to see through to the brake gear on the far side, but I can't see any! I would be surprised if a fitted van only had brake gear on one side - could it be that the brake gear on the far side mirrors that on the near side and is therefore obscured?

 

I'd be very grateful for any insight any RMWebbers are able to provide about whether these vans had a set of brakes on each side and which way round they went!

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

Ben

[Flying Pig]

I have the same photo and it's noticeable that the brake lever is not connected through a reversing clutch as would be usual on the braked side of Moreton gear. Is it just the rather high viewpoint that's hiding the brakes on the far side?

[BenL]

Thanks Simon, I think you might be right about the viewpoint obscuring the brakes on the far side.

 

If these vans followed the standard RCH arrangement, I believe the clutch would have been on the other side and that the brake gear would mirror that on the side we can see, making it even more likely to be obscured.

 

A very helpful diagram of the RCH arrangement can be seen in this PDF - I'm increasingly suspecting that the wagons I'm asking about followed this arrangement, but would be very grateful if someone could confirm:

 

https://website.rumneymodels.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/B.32_RCH_9_Foot_WB_Chassis_Instructions.pdf

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by BenL
Added link

[Wickham Green too]

A conventional four-shoe Morton brake would have been fitted to these - effectively two additional shoes and their linkages parallel to the unfitted type.

[Flying Pig]

BTW guess what pops up first when I google "LMS diagram 1663"

 

 

[Aire Head]

1 hour ago, BenL said:

I'm keen to model a few early LMS fitted vans, with a 9ft wheel base, specifically from diagrams 1663, 1664, or 1676, in LMS condition (ie not unfitted versions of these vans that were subsequently fitted by BR). 

 

 

I will put up a picture of my fitted D1663 up shortly showing you the arrangements 

[Aire Head]

Fitted versions of these vans had 4 Shoe Morten Brakes instead of the 2 shoe variety on the unfitted versions.

 

 

 

[Wickham Green too]

While you have that van off the layout, might I suggest you swap the shoe/pushrod mouldings so they work correctly ??!? .... as fitted, both levers and vac cylinder are arranged to pull the brakes off ! ( easy mistake ) 

[Aire Head]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

While you have that van off the layout, might I suggest you swap the shoe/pushrod mouldings so they work correctly ??!? .... as fitted, both levers and vac cylinder are arranged to pull the brakes off ! ( easy mistake ) 

 

Yes that is probably a good idea