Prototypical British Rail Operations 1960 -1980

[Singapore Flange]

I am trying to give my layout as much purpose as possible after watching David Hyde's videos on Goods Operations at Deresley.  I am modelling the late 60s' to Late 70's UK.

 

I have multiple questions and not sure were to start.  But to cut a long story short how do I:

 

create a daily timetable,

generate train documentation for passenger, mixed goods, departmental & special engineering trains.

 

If anyone can correct my ignorance I would be very grateful.

 

[Aire Head]

2 hours ago, Singapore Flange said:

I am trying to give my layout as much purpose as possible after watching David Hyde's videos on Goods Operations at Deresley.  I am modelling the late 60s' to Late 70's UK.

 

I have multiple questions and not sure were to start.  But to cut a long story short how do I:

 

create a daily timetable,

generate train documentation for passenger, mixed goods, departmental & special engineering trains.

 

If anyone can correct my ignorance I would be very grateful.

 

 

Some more information regarding your layout would be helpful. Is it a terminus or through station? Major route,  Secondary mainline or branchline? Where in the country is it? What industries have to be catered for? 

 

I find it's helpful to understand the world outside of your layout too. What other stations are there? What other industries are there off scene? Where are the people in your world travelling to? Does it have competition from other rail lines or means of transportation? Is there something on the route that restrict your trains such as short refuge sidings or a need to reverse the train to access destinations.

 

From there you can start to work out what your railway is doing and from there how it is being done.

[The Stationmaster]

6 hours ago, Singapore Flange said:

I am trying to give my layout as much purpose as possible after watching David Hyde's videos on Goods Operations at Deresley.  I am modelling the late 60s' to Late 70's UK.

 

I have multiple questions and not sure were to start.  But to cut a long story short how do I:

 

create a daily timetable,

generate train documentation for passenger, mixed goods, departmental & special engineering trains.

 

If anyone can correct my ignorance I would be very grateful.

 

Basically there are only two ways you can create a timetable - you either start with the 'commercial requirement' (e.g. passenger  trains at times it is expected people will want to travel; freight trains at the time your freight customer wants them) - an approach usually called 'specification led'.  Or you start with getting the best out of what you have in the way of locos and stock to deliver the best service you can - an approach known as 'resource'/.

 

In reality of course timetables tend to be a blending of these two extremes and in any case also have to take into account the capacity of your infrastructure - e.g. a single line will mean you can't run as many trains as you could on a double and in any event the signalling system in use will also create a constraint.  And it really is in its simplest form as simple as that although it obviously starts to get more complicated as you mix different types of traffic and trains of different speeds or stopping patterns - where again line capacity and signalling start to become either constraints or helpful features.

 

So to give you an example I could - and on several occasions in the late 190 80s/early '90s did - rewrite the entire Western Region HST timetable overnight because the normal timetable was wrecked by the weather or lack of availability of trains or some other serious event but in doing that the only constrainyt I faced was h knowoing which routes were open when and how many HSTs I had to build my service around.  mopst of the other thinsg needed to work such a reduced timetable weren't too much ofa problem because they were there in sufficient numbers to work the everyday timetable.

 

So that takes us back to where do you start.   The infrastructure  (track and signals etc) is there and takes a long while to alter so you have a reasonably steady base from which to work.  What you then ideally need to know is your commercial specification -i.e the places you have to serve and at what frequency and that relates very much to the point made by 'Aire Head' because it will be a key part of what you need to plan for rather than jsu asking how you write the plan.

 

At the start of the period you are asking about train (service) planning still tended to be very much based on the traditional - write the timetable, then resource it with locos and rilling stock (a ptrocress called diagramming), then man those locos and trains ((again called diagramming) then publish your timetable and diagrams.  by 1980 it was much more a case of the timetabling and diagramming to be increasingly integrated in an iterative process trying to meet the two aims of the commercial spec while doing the job with the minimum of resources although the pace of move towards that did vary between different parts of BR.

 

But it will always come back to knowing what and where you need to serve in the first place and how much railways you have got to do that.

[Singapore Flange]

thank you Mike & Aire Head for the replies.  Thanks for being patient!

 

some very useful suggestions and things for me to think about.  I like the idea or adjusting the HST timetable to suit weather etc, exactly the kind of thing I'd like to do.

 

What would help me get my head around the challenge is if you could recommend a resource for 1970s British Rail London area, wagon labels, waybills, train graphs and the documentation that was used to make up passenger trains.  Procedures for empty coaching stock trains, and the stuff that happened overnight.

[Phil Bullock]

As someone who has gone down this road for an actual location in 71/72 there’s a lot of background reading! 
 

For passenger workings your best starting point is probably Robert Carroll’s excellent IO group … from there you should be able to navigate to carriage working files for your chosen period. 
 

Freight is tougher! A working timetable and/or copious photos from your chosen location/era are your starting point. Any block trains (company trains in the WTT) are the easiest to work out but wagonload traffic flows are tougher to find documents for and photos are definitely your friend.

As are the likes of @The Stationmaster and others on here with operational and line side experience of your era …. They have certainly been a huge help to me.

 

It’s a fascinating field which can certainly add to realistic operation.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Phil Bullock

[Singapore Flange]

Thanks Phil, apologies for being a bit vague.  I'll try Robert Carolls group and try to get more precise with the locations!

[br2975]

An example of BR (WR) freight working diagramming for the Cardiff Valleys, commencing 3rd. July, 1967 a period immediately before the reorganisation of freight working in South Wales (otherwise  known as 'Blockplan), when most 'valleys' workings were still operated in the traditional manner, albeit with diesel power, predominantly EE Type 3 1750HP (Cl.37) , and BR 650HP (Cl.14) power.

.

In these BR documents the diagrams are also known as 'Turns' - the 'Turn' number shown at the top left hand of each specific entry.

.

Note that some Turns use, 2, 3 or even more locos, not just one.

.

The diagram also shows the relevant crew allocated to the working e.g. (904) or (906), and where the number changes part way through the diagram, is where let's  say crew (904) relieved crew (909)

.

Notice also, that many of the workings starting at a stabling point (S.P.) as an "LD" then work to the nearby 'van siding' where the loco collects its' (hopefully prepared) brake van, now becoming "EBV" before moving on to their first destination where they may become a "Cl.9" or "Cl.6" freight.

.

Note, for example, one of the Dowlais Cae Harris turns, runs EBV from Ocean & Taff Merthyr Collieries to Dowlais, in order for a crew change, then returns EBV to Nelson. This may seem extravagant but the geography of the area and lack of public transport made such 'taxi' workings a necessity, but also led to subsequent reorganisation with the majority of Cardiff Valleys freights operating out and back from Radyr.

.

The usual abbreviations apply, with no doubt some local amendments.

 

M-F = Monday - Friday

T.Th.O = Tuesdays & Thursdays Only

SO = Saturdays Excepted

SO = Saturdays Only

'Q' = As required

EBV = Engine & Brake Van

LD = Light Diesel

Attd = Attached

Asst = Assist

Cl.6 = Class 6 working

H.15, H.32, H.42 or 9H42, J.44, J.51 = reporting numbers.

.

I'm sure some of our learned contributors can add more flesh to these bones.

Edited December 17, 2021 by br2975

[Rivercider]

10 hours ago, Singapore Flange said:

thank you Mike & Aire Head for the replies.  Thanks for being patient!

 

some very useful suggestions and things for me to think about.  I like the idea or adjusting the HST timetable to suit weather etc, exactly the kind of thing I'd like to do.

 

What would help me get my head around the challenge is if you could recommend a resource for 1970s British Rail London area, wagon labels, waybills, train graphs and the documentation that was used to make up passenger trains.  Procedures for empty coaching stock trains, and the stuff that happened overnight.

Even if you narrow things down to 1970s London Area that still leaves a wide variation. Different regions of BR did things slightly differently, and each of the London termini and their main routes each had their own peculiarities. Does one particular route hold a particular interest to you?

 

cheers

[The Stationmaster]

13 hours ago, Singapore Flange said:

thank you Mike & Aire Head for the replies.  Thanks for being patient!

 

some very useful suggestions and things for me to think about.  I like the idea or adjusting the HST timetable to suit weather etc, exactly the kind of thing I'd like to do.

 

What would help me get my head around the challenge is if you could recommend a resource for 1970s British Rail London area, wagon labels, waybills, train graphs and the documentation that was used to make up passenger trains.  Procedures for empty coaching stock trains, and the stuff that happened overnight.

You can forget waybills.  By 1966 the only waybills still being used for UK mainland traffic of any sort were for a few categories of parcels traffic.  If you are thinking of waybills in the US context that sort of thing had largely vanished from the British railway scene by the early years of the 20th century.

[Nearholmer]

Given that this is an enormous subject, or set of subjects, the entire “software” for operating a railway, it might be a good idea to start with something modest, a small area, then build up from there.

 

I’ve found these books very interesting and educational https://rail-books.co.uk/products/the-district-controllers-view-1950s-br-steam-operating-no-16-north-cornwall-9781901056433, and would suggest that even though they tend to cover earlier eras, one of them might make a useful primer.

 

The other thought is that it really helps if you understand the nature of the “traffic on offer”, what trips people wanted/needed to make, and what goods they wanted/needed to shift, which means that it is better to start with an area that you know well.

[Singapore Flange]

On 17/12/2021 at 20:15, br2975 said:

An example of BR (WR) freight working diagramming for the Cardiff Valleys, commencing 3rd. July, 1967 a period immediately before the reorganisation of freight working in South Wales (otherwise  known as 'Blockplan), when most 'valleys' workings were still operated in the traditional manner, albeit with diesel power, predominantly EE Type 3 1750HP (Cl.37) , and BR 650HP (Cl.14) power.

.

In these BR documents the diagrams are also known as 'Turns' - the 'Turn' number shown at the top left hand of each specific entry.

.

Note that some Turns use, 2, 3 or even more locos, not just one.

.

The diagram also shows the relevant crew allocated to the working e.g. (904) or (906), and where the number changes part way through the diagram, is where let's  say crew (904) relieved crew (909)

.

Notice also, that many of the workings starting at a stabling point (S.P.) as an "LD" then work to the nearby 'van siding' where the loco collects its' (hopefully prepared) brake van, now becoming "EBV" before moving on to their first destination where they may become a "Cl.9" or "Cl.6" freight.

.

Note, for example, one of the Dowlais Cae Harris turns, runs EBV from Ocean & Taff Merthyr Collieries to Dowlais, in order for a crew change, then returns EBV to Nelson. This may seem extravagant but the geography of the area and lack of public transport made such 'taxi' workings a necessity, but also led to subsequent reorganisation with the majority of Cardiff Valleys freights operating out and back from Radyr.

.

The usual abbreviations apply, with no doubt some local amendments.

 

M-F = Monday - Friday

T.Th.O = Tuesdays & Thursdays Only

SO = Saturdays Excepted

SO = Saturdays Only

'Q' = As required

EBV = Engine & Brake Van

LD = Light Diesel

Attd = Attached

Asst = Assist

Cl.6 = Class 6 working

H.15, H.32, H.42 or 9H42, J.44, J.51 = reporting numbers.

.

I'm sure some of our learned contributors can add more flesh to these bones.

 

many thanks fascinating stuff many thanks!!