North London in P4 plus Gasworks

[garethashenden]

I've become dissatisfied with my layout Queensbridge. It seemed like a good idea when I started, but it no longer fits my desires for a layout, from either an operational or realism point of view. I have found the space to make an L shaped layout with a double track mainline with fiddleyards at either end, 8'x5' scenic area. 
The basic idea and what I want out of the layout are as follows. North London Railway between 1900 and 1905 modeled in P4. A double track line capable of running passenger service, complete with signaling. A goods yard, maybe just a coal yard, but goods traffic would be nice too. Part of a station at one end.

What I have done so far is to take the signaling diagram for Hampstead Heath and curve it to fit the available space. This has the advantage over something I made up of probably being correct! The downside is that it leaves the back corner of the layout needing a lot of terraced houses. Here is that plan:

The other option is to fill the back corner of the layout with a gasworks. That would give me an online industry and a place for 0-4-0s to play. I need some help with the track plan of this though. I'm picturing an exchange siding, somewhere coal gets unloaded, somewhere coke gets loaded, maybe a tiny engine shed if I'm lucky. Some of this has been sketched in pencil on the Hampstead track plan. I'm ok with one track going into the fiddleyard, but I want to limit it to that. I think most of the actual gasworks would be low relief or on the backscene. Here is what I have so far:

[Flying Pig]

Something simple like this perhaps?  Having the sidings the other way round should, I think ease the curves.  Just a couple of exchange sidings and the private siding disappearing across a road through gateways in high walls.  No runround needed, though the crossing is of course a double slip.

 

[DCB]

The curved terraced housing is a bit unlikely.  They are usually straight lines intersecting awkwardly with railway.

The sidings facing left on the inside will be awkward to shunt.  Much of the shunting in such a small yard would be by men pushing wagons .   Equally with a suburban line its likely the goods shunting would be off peak, possibly evenings or at night.  Either that or the blokes will have to get a shift on.   The lines in the corner will be awkward to get to to operate and indeed to view, it goes with the territory of tracks and scenery behind a large radius curve in a corner.

[Nick Holliday]

5 hours ago, DCB said:

The curved terraced housing is a bit unlikely.  They are usually straight lines intersecting awkwardly with railway.

Not like this, then, in Deptford

[Mol_PMB]

At this period, most railway companies tried to avoid facing points on passenger lines. 

I would expect the link to the gasworks sidings ought to be a trailing connection as in Flying Pig’s suggestion. 

Looking at the link into the goods yard on the inside of the curve, bottom right on the plan, I assume it’s a diamond or single slip where it crosses the inner main line?

[Flying Pig]

@DCB is right about access to the corner.  Even with a single siding representing the gasworks you are going to need to consider how you couple and uncouple wagons - one of the autocouplings with delayed uncoupling will probably be easiest. 

 

Or you could use a short sector plate to acess a sneak back road behind the backscene and deal with traffic in the fiddle yard.

[Jeff Smith]

I have been following Queensbridge.  My last post on your thread was posing the diorama versus layout question......hope that was not the only reason for disillusionment!

 

The NL only used short wheelbase locos so your curves in P4 should be manageable, they look to be about 48" which can be a bit tight for some P4 locos and 6 wheel coaches.

 

I would be tempted to loose the back corner with a curved back scene, say about 2' radius with some warehouses or a viaduct cutting across.

 

Have you thought that we may be the only two modellers in the US with an interest in the NL?

[Compound2632]

The gasworks sounds to me like an excellent idea from the point of view of motivating traffic. 

• Where is coal coming from? Derbys / Notts/ S. Yorks coalfield - which collieries were active at your period? (Too early for some of the well-known names.) Where they using their own wagons, the collieries' wagons or railway company wagons? Cue lots of GN 6-plankers / MR D299 / LNWR D53/D54. 
• Where is coke going to? I think that in an urban area, much would be sold locally, but it might be going out to an industrial user - railway company wagons? Factors?

It should be interestingly distinct from the traffic coming into the coal yard at the front, if that is chiefly domestic coal - local merchants - Parry?

[garethashenden]

I’ve had a few iterations of layout ideas covered in a thread on the Scalefour Forum: https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7893

 

They all have problems, the radius being the biggest one. The other furniture in the room limit the available space in front of the track, something like 40” is the biggest it can feasibly be. That shouldn’t be an issue with the intended stock, but it is tight by normal P4 standard. I’m also now considering having exchange sidings for the gasworks with the actual works off scene. Still get the traffic, don’t need the massive buildings. I’m thinking the coal came from Poplar in NLR hopper wagons. They get dropped off, the empties get taken away, then the gasworks’ shunter comes and exchanges empties for loads. The ideal layout would also have a local goods and coal yard and a station of some sort. I do like the junction idea, but that takes space that probably doesn’t really exist. 

[garethashenden]

I'm back with another trackplan. This time based on the station and goods yard at Old Ford, between Victoria Park Junction and Bow. I had overlooked it, but I think it has most of the things I'm looking for. With a little bit of compression and a good deal of curving, I have got it to fit in the available space. I'm not sure if I'll model any portion of Wick Lane Works. They did have their own siding which is not yet on the plan but could be added if I feel the need.

 

[drduncan]

I like it.

D

[garethashenden]

I did some minimum radius testing. The tightest spot is through a turnout which Templot says is 18". This is probably only for a short length, but still 18" is tight. So I made a curve in Templot with a 17" radius. Its almost a 90 degree curve with two straight bits at the ends. Quickly constructed from pcb sleepers and reclaimed steel rail. I used DD Wheelwrights 3 point gauges which added a lot of gauge widening, as expected. Maybe too much. I tried 5 vehicles though the curve. A GWR 3 plank, 9' wheelbase; LNWR D32 Van, 9' wb; LNWR D14 Deal Wagon, 16' wb; GWR Crocodile well wagon, 37.5' wb; and a NLR Park Tank 0-6-0, 11.5' wb.
Everything went through the curve fine on its own. A couple things came off occasionally, but that could be put down to how hard I shoved them just as much as the tight radius. They can go through, even if they don't always. The problem area is buffer locking. The two 9' wheelbase wagons and the Park tank are fine, as might be expected. I can push two of them at fairly high speed repeatedly. Any individual vehicle can be propelled safely by the Park tank. I can also put a 9' wb wagon between the Park tank and one of the longer vehicles and have everything be fine. What doesn't work is having a short wb wagon beyond a long wb wagon. Park tank - D14 - Crocodile works. Park tank - Crocodile - D14 works. Park tank - D14 - D32 does not work. The D14's buffer slips inside the buffer of the D32 and then the D14 derails. This is why industrial locomotives have such large buffer heads. 

So, not a resounding success, but not a complete failure either. My next step will be to print out the relevant portion of the Templot plan and lay track over the tightest curve. I'll do it as plain track, but following the outline of the turnout. This should give me a close approximation of the final geometry. 

https://youtu.be/kBg9mrIQlAk