Shuttle Train mode with ECoS CS

[reggie]

Hi All

 

I have an ECoS Command Station and want to have a Shuttle Train between two points. I got the ECoS Standard Detector thinking that would do the job, but it doesn't. Apparently it is only for 

block detection, not shuttling. The ECoS Detector that will do this is £180-00, very steep imo, so I won't be buying that! I have been told the Digikeijs DR4088CS will operate a Shuttle Train.

Before I buy this does anyone know if this is correct, or if not what module I do need?

 

I run a 2 rail OO gauge Layout btw.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Reggie

[WIMorrison]

The DR4088cs will detect the presence of a train in a detected section and report the occupation of the section over the S88 bus, however you will still need something (generally software) to use that occupancy and shuttle the train. The DR4088CS does not have any inmate ability to do what you want.

[reggie]

24 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

The DR4088cs will detect the presence of a train in a detected section and report the occupation of the section over the S88 bus, however you will still need something (generally software) to use that occupancy and shuttle the train. The DR4088CS does not have any inmate ability to do what you want.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

The ECoS has an inbuilt shuttle facility where you can assign locos and set stopover time etc, so I'm guessing it will work, but not 100% sure! 

[WIMorrison]

I also note that the ECoS says it can run a shuttle, might be something you need to ask on an ECoS forum about the way to achieve it?

 

Or you can pour over the manuals for the system and see if you can work it out 

 

ECoS manuals

[Nigelcliffe]

From the ESU ECoS manual, I'm puzzled as to why the basic ECoS standard detector won't work (or who gave the information saying it won't work ?).   
The ECoS manual shows the input coming from a simple on/off status for the two detection positions, there is nothing about the RailCom ID being required (which is what the more expensive detector offers). 

 

 

So, the ECoS standard detector would be connected to a short piece of track at the "brake point" for each of the stations (thus using two of the inputs to the detector), with the rest of the track connected normally to the DCC bus.  That provides the two messages to operate the shuttle sequence.  

 

To operate a "shuttle", the operator calls up a Loco, and then allocates it to a Shuttle sequence.  From then, the loco is driven by the shuttle system, rather than the human operator, until such time as the operator tells the loco to stop being in the shuttle. 

 

 

I don't own any of this hardware, so the above is "reading the manuals".  

 

- Nigel

[reggie]

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

I also note that the ECoS says it can run a shuttle, might be something you need to ask on an ECoS forum about the way to achieve it?

 

Or you can pour over the manuals for the system and see if you can work it out 

 

ECoS manuals

 

Yes, I did post on the ECoS forum but I thought I shouldn't ask about other manufacturers products on an ESU forum. I know the ESU Detector will work but at £180 it's too expensive.

 

The manuals don't really tell you much! 

 

[reggie]

31 minutes ago, Nigelcliffe said:

From the ESU ECoS manual, I'm puzzled as to why the basic ECoS standard detector won't work (or who gave the information saying it won't work ?).   
The ECoS manual shows the input coming from a simple on/off status for the two detection positions, there is nothing about the RailCom ID being required (which is what the more expensive detector offers). 

 

 

So, the ECoS standard detector would be connected to a short piece of track at the "brake point" for each of the stations (thus using two of the inputs to the detector), with the rest of the track connected normally to the DCC bus.  That provides the two messages to operate the shuttle sequence.  

 

To operate a "shuttle", the operator calls up a Loco, and then allocates it to a Shuttle sequence.  From then, the loco is driven by the shuttle system, rather than the human operator, until such time as the operator tells the loco to stop being in the shuttle. 

 

 

I don't own any of this hardware, so the above is "reading the manuals".  

 

- Nigel

 

Thanks for your reply, yes I am puzzled why it won't work too. I asked on the ESU Forum and someone replied it won't work on 2 rail systems, that you have to use the more expensive unit ,and James at DCC Automation said the same, (he originally said it would work, but after I couldn't get it working looked into it and said it wouldn't).

 

I don't want to pay £180, so was told by James that a Digikeijs would work, but wanted to check first. (I haven't been able to get hold of him for a few days, so am looking to order elsewhere).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nigelcliffe]

21 minutes ago, reggie said:

 

Thanks for your reply, yes I am puzzled why it won't work too. I asked on the ESU Forum and someone replied it won't work on 2 rail systems, that you have to use the more expensive unit ,and James at DCC Automation said the same, (he originally said it would work, but after I couldn't get it working looked into it and said it wouldn't).

 

I don't want to pay £180, so was told by James that a Digikeijs would work, but wanted to check first. (I haven't been able to get hold of him for a few days, so am looking to order elsewhere).

 

OK,  if James at DCC Automation has tried it, and it doesn't work, then that's likely to be correct.   

Digging into ESU manuals, the cheaper basic detector can't do "current sensing", so can't connect it directly to the track .  Its purpose is to take input from external switch devices.   (The 3-rail connection is a bit of a bodge - use one of the two "common" rails as the switch contacts, with the loco completing the switch as it runs into the section. )
Therefore, it ought to work with the addition of a switch of some sort which is triggered by the train.  This might be an optical sensor (so the train breaks the beam), or it might be a reed switch with a magnet stuck to the train to operate it.   Or it probably works with a third-party track current detector, such as an NCE BD20 which gives a switch output.  

 

 

If James at DCC Automation says the Digikeijs will work, then buy it from him.  Then you've clear to return it for full refund if it fails - you've a clear contract saying what you want it to do, with the ECoS, confirmation it works, so slam-dunk on consumer rights (for avoidance of any doubt, I'd expect James to be honourable and you'd not need to invoke any legal rights).  

 

 

- Nigel

[reggie]

Hi Nigel,

 

Thanks for your reply, it is very helpful. I don't want to start involving external switches etc, but can understand why the standard won't work now.

 

I would order from James if I could get hold of him, (they are showing out of stock on his site, but he said he had some coming in last Wednesday)

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Reggie

 

[reggie]

 

Just an update on this - I received the Digikeijs Unit from DCC TRain Automation and had the shuttle up and running in about 15 minutes!

 

Very easy to set up and works well. I just need to fine tune the locos to stop in the right place etc, but that's all part of the fun.