JR DD51 Diesel locomotive

[jjb1970]

Quite a nice little video on the JR DD51:

 

https://youtu.be/rj-Xg4gdWE0

 

The DD51 is a B-2-B mixed traffic diesel hydraulic, though I believe the survivors are now freight only. They had two 1100HP engines so although they look similar to the BR Class 17 (albeit with an extra bogie) they were much more capable machines. Many Japanese rail enthusiasts revere the type, I have a good friend who is adamant that the DD51 is the finest locomotive to have been built in Japan (personally I much prefer the EF81).

For modellers the class is very well represented in both N and Japanese HO (which is 1/80 scale), for HO it has been done by Kato, Tomix and by Tenshodo in diecast as well as brass models. My recommendation is probably Tomix, it's a step up from the Kato offering and not as expensive as the Tenshodo diecast offering (the price for which is inflated by standard fit sound).

[Allegheny1600]

Thanks for the heads up on which H0 version is better - I’ve been drooling over these for some time now and felt the Tomix version may be better.

For someone who has done US railroading for over thirty years, it sounds incredible to say that!

Sadly, I don’t know if I’ll ever manage to get one.

John

[jjb1970]

Hi John, Tomix are 'the other' big Japanese producer of model trains, because they've rarely looked beyond Japan for prototypes to model they're all but ignored outside of Japan and Japanese model enthusiasts. However, they know their business and whilst comparisons between Kato and Tomix need to be done on a model by model basis I find their N gauge ranges to be equivalent. In HO it is a little different, Tomix entered Japanese HO (it's 1/80 but for ease of discussion it's usually called HO) later than Kato and positioned their HO range higher in the market than Kato. Tomix tend to have finer details and more separately applied parts, but they also tend to be noticeably more expensive. Things get a bit more complex, Tomix offers their HO models as standard and prestige models. The base models are identical, it is the same tooling, same mechanism, same paint etc, the difference is that the standard models have a mountain of add on parts for the user to fit (handrails, grad irons, windscreen wipers, hoses etc), these parts being plastic. The prestige range comes finished, with the add on parts in wire and etched metal painted in the correct colours and the depot allocation plates are applied (though the user still usually has to apply numbers). The prestige models save a lot of grief (there are a lot of add on parts, and finishing the standard releases is a real PITA) and have a slightly better finish thanks to the use of wire and etchings rather than plastic but they cost a lot more. It's not just an extra 50 quid, prices can be double, but it has always struck me as a good idea as those who want convenience and are willing to pay for it get it, those looking to save money who don't mind doing the work to put the bits on get that too, everybody wins. Whenever ideas like this are mooted for British modellers there always seem to be answers that it would be impossible, wouldn't save any money, nobody wants it etc yet Tomix demonstrate that such a system works. Another manufacturer who offers the same basic model in different levels of detail very well is Scale Trains in the US with their different tiers.

On the DD51, although I think the Tomix version is more detailed and with much greater use of separate detail parts the Kato model is also excellent and can be found relatively cheaply. It's still an excellent model, on a layout you'd be hard pressed to notice a difference really. 

[jjb1970]

Kato HO model, image is from Amazon.jp:

 

Tomix Prestige, also Amazon.jp:

 

[Claude_Dreyfus]

The DD51 is one of my favourite locomotives, although sadly age is catching up with them a only a few remain in service. In H0 I had a Kato example until very recently, and was extremely impressed by the standard. Tomix is excellent, but as the OP says, both are very similar standard. I am not convinced that the Tomix 'Prestige' offerings are worth the considerable mark-up. Yes, they save the time and sanity for fitting the parts, but the body mouldings and mechanism are the same.

[jjb1970]

The Tomix Prestige range is quite smart as it charges a huge price premium to those who don't want the hassle of applying detail parts, basically a case of let us do the work for you, here's the bill'. Tomix make money, their customers have an easy life. I must admit most of my Tomix models are Prestige as I hate applying the parts, on the DD51 it's a bit of a mountain. However, on a layout the standard and prestige models are indistinguishable, and in reality the cheaper Kato alternative looks just the same at layout viewing distance.

 

I do wonder why British and European manufacturers have never adopted the Tomix concept. When people have whinged about prices in the past a standard response has been that applying all the bits is labour intensive and adds cost, which is an entirely logical one which makes complete sense. However, when it is suggested that models are sold with the bits to be added by the user we've also seen responses that it wouldn't really alter the price. Maybe both circumstances are indeed true for different manufacturers, one thing lost in many of that particular discussion is that because it costs company A £X to produce a model does not mean it costs company B the same, costs can differ very significantly between different suppliers in the same sector. However the Tomix approach does provide a choice, easy life or lower price.

 

Image from Amazon jp for the standard Tomix model.

 

[Claude_Dreyfus]

I am not sure a similar approach to the 'prestige' range would work in the UK. In many ways the Japanese market is similar to Germany, where you get the range specifically targeted towards the high-end market; especially the beautiful quality kits available (Weinert for example). We don't seem to have the same modelling strata in the UK (some could argue things like the 'Railroad' reflect this, but similar approaches are adopted by many manufacturers - Roco for example (and at least they have the decency to price 30 year old tooling models accordingly!!)).

 

Tomix Prestige is certainly a notch below Tenshodo or others of their ilk, but they are also a manifestation of the fact their "base' models come with a load of extra fittings (as your photo demonstrates). UK models come with a few bits, not sure that level of fitment would go down too well (nor models with all of the bits being fitted costing nearly about a third more in some cases).

[jjb1970]

Japanese HO is probably more aligned with European and North American O, a larger premium scale for those with deeper pockets. The market is overwhelmingly N.

 

I like the Japanese approach to N. They do what Hornby tried to do with their design clever idea. Money is spent where it makes a difference. Since most trains are MU types which operate in fixed formations they don't bother much with details on vehicle ends which won't be seen ( Tomix don't have any vehicle end details on Shinkansen models). Underframe details are what is visible from the side. Separate parts are used sparingly and they don't mind moulded details. Pantographs are posable as they represent overhead systems with masts and spans only. That one sounds crazy but works surprisingly well given how heavy looking catenary tends to be in N.

 

On the other hand they use superb mechanisms, they make a lot of effort to get shape right it seems to be about capturing the overall look and impression, which is superbly done. I like the Japanese approach, models can be handled without worrying about bits dropping off, they run beautifully and look excellent on a layout. And the prices would probably make European N enthusiasts weep.

 

At the moment all my OO/HO is stored but I enjoy setting up Kato Unitrack on the floor and just playing trains with my Japanese N. 

 

Their approach to HO is very different. Until comparatively recently Kato made a very small range and it was the preserve of expensive brass outfits like Tenshodo, Katsumi, Endo, Musashino, Microcast Mizuno etc. Now Tomix has a large HO range, with stuff from Microace, Tramway and others. Tenshodo now makes high end diecast models and plastic RTR as well as brass. They also have their T-evolution models which are low cost static models which can be motorized. And Endo now make plastic RTR as well as brass ( they recently did a nice Doctor Yellow). I guess it mirrors changes in British O which is now much more attainable for most thanks to Heljan, Dapol and others developing RTR O.

[kevsmiththai]

Don't overlook Rokuhan's superb Z scale DD51s

 

They do the Hokutosei twins. The normal Cold Distric Red/Grey and the Euroliner amongst others. As anybody who has seen my Hakuho layout running at shows know, they are superb runners. Faultless almost, very nicely detailed and I get mine direct from either Plaza Japan or Hobbysearch. Typically a single loco is just under £50

 

I've also got a Hokutosei DD51 in H0 by Kato (Bought off a club sales stand on a whim) and like all Japanese stuff, the elaphant in the room is the incorrect track gauge. They run on scale standard gauge track rather than 3ft 6".

 

I've done a couple of reviews of these on youtube

 

 

cheers

 

Kev

[jjb1970]

The scale/gauge question is a bit of a minefield in Japan. For ease of conversation people tend to talk about HO, but there are two scales, 1/80 on 16.5mmHO gauge, and 1/87 using either 16.5mm or 12mm (TT is pretty close for 3'6" gauge), made more complicated that the default for non-Shinkansen train models is 1/80 on 16.5mm even when they're standard gauge (contrary to common belief, there are standard gauge lines in Japan other than Shinkansen lines) while Shinkansen models are 1/87. However, it all seems to work for Japanese enthusiasts, noting that unlike Europe and the US HO (OO in Britain) is very much the junior scale and with N being dominant.