WW2 40 and 8

[dave1905]

Anybody have dimensions (length, height, door width, wheel diameter) for a WW2 French 40&8 boxcar.  Asking for someone else who is trying to scale it off of pictures.  Or know where there are measured plans for one on line?

[Pacific231G]

9 hours ago, dave1905 said:

Anybody have dimensions (length, height, door width, wheel diameter) for a WW2 French 40&8 boxcar.  Asking for someone else who is trying to scale it off of pictures.  Or know where there are measured plans for one on line?

Hi Dave

There wasn't a single type of couvert that carried the 40 & 8 designation (some larger bogie wagons had a higher capacity  and I think there were some metre gauge wagons registered for a lower number) They needed to be capable of being ventilated so were the most common type of couvert (van in Br. English or boxcar in US English) ,usually with shutters, commonly eight, that could be open or closed. They were designed for general merchandise, fresh fruit and veg. and livestock transport but weren't specifically "cattle cars" as they're sometimes described.  Those used during the second World War might well be something like an OCEM 19 or 29 - standard interwar  couverts used by most of France's railways and then by SNCF but in 1939-1945 earlier types were still in use. 

If you Google 40 hommes 8 chevaux en long you'll find plenty of examples of the different wagons that carried this inscription and this webpage has the dimensions for an OCEM 19 (with those for an OCEM 29 on the following page. The markings on the models shown are the UIC markings that came in in the 1960s - wartime SNCF markings were different.

https://gibitrains.pagesperso-orange.fr/en/train/wagon_couvert_gm-ocem-ls_models.htm

 

The inscription - for standard four wheel wagons most commonly 40 hommes 8 chevaux en long (though, depending on the actual wagon, the number of troops could be 36 or 48) was a requirement imposed in 1874 by the French government which obliged railway companies to so mark wagons deemed suitable for military transport to facilitate their requisition in times of war. The requirement finally disappeared after 1950. 

During the First World War they were associated with troops going to the front but, after the Second World War, they came to symbolise the deportations of both prisoners of war and civilians by the Germans (when such a wagon might be loaded with 120 people) so have been preserved with that inscription in a number of museums.  

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Pacific231G

[dave1905]

Thanks!

 

[Pacific231G]

I've just found a drawing for an OCEM 19. It's copyright so I can't post it here but would you like it as a PM? I also found a article (in French) about 40 & 8. (sometimes hommes 36-40, chevaux 8, presumably depending on how much equipment the hommes had with them )  

[GRASinBothell]

You might look at the Merci Train (http://www.mercitrain.org/). This was a "train" of 49 of these cars sent to the US in 1949 by the people of France as a way to show their gratitude for quantities of food sent from the US. Each of the then 48 states received one boxcar, with DC and the Territory of Hawaii sharing the other one.

Unfortunately, the Nebraska boxcar was an early casualty, but most of the others remain. The website I included above tells you where they all are, so you may be able to find one close enough to go and measure/photograph.

Gordon