Econami decoder, DecoderPro/Sprog & active/dynamic brake.

[Ray H]

I have just bought a loco fitted with an Econami decoder. It is scheduled to arrive tomorrow.

 

I use the Active/Dynamic brake feature on all my locos. I use the NCE throttle F2 key (plus the Horn/Whistle key which will "apply" the brake whilst pressed) for braking .

 

I've had a quick look at the Econami documentation which seems to indicate that CV 117's value affects the brake rate and the F11 key is used to apply the brake.

 

Has anyone modified their Econami decoder settings to use the F2 instead of the F11 key for the brake function?

Edited January 15, 2023 by Ray H
New Title

[Nigelcliffe]

CV 16.1.275=2  is probably what you need (default value is 11 for F11).   Which is setting two index CV's (I think the indexes will be CV31=16, CV32=1, but check the decoder's manual), then CV275 = 2.   Set the indexes back to 0 when you're finished to avoid getting confused next time you touch the loco.   
BUT!!!.... there are problems with NCE PowerPro systems (not PowerCab) with CV's above CV255, so you'll need to look up how that limitation hits things before proceeding (I can't remember how it goes).  Get it wrong and you're programming some other feature, and not what you expect.  

 

JMRI DecoderPro will handle all the indexing stuff, etc..  for you automatically.  

 

 

Or F11 is one of the keys along the bottom edge of the NCE throttle. 

[Ray H]

Thanks Nigel

 

I can either use the PowerCab or DecoderPro but the latter isn't currently set up and the bench is covered in Arduino stuff at present.

 

I presume that I need to shove some of the other key allocations to fit the old F2 function somewhere else.

 

All understood about the F11 key's position, I'd just prefer to have the same key for the brake. 

[Nigelcliffe]

Yes,  I think you need to dig out DecoderPro, upgrade it to something reasonably recent (within a year or so) and look at the Function Map for the decoder.  That should allow you to move everything around.  F2 by default is likely to be a horn/whistle, so will need moving (and arguable case for destination similar to your other decoders), and I suspect there will be other consequential moves.  

 

- Nigel

[Ray H]

A slightly late delivery of some critical parts for the Arduino related items has enabled me to clear the bench enough to accommodate the laptop, the Sprog and the only piece of track I have left so I'll have a crack it things tomorrow.

 

The loco arrived today, complete with the Econami documentation that came with the decoder. It is strange to find that sound is normally on and uses a mute function (F8) to quieten it.

 

I'll let you know how I get on.

[Ray H]

Not the bestest of days 😒

 

I downloaded the latest live version of DecoderPro successfully. It didn't recognise the decoder even when I worked out that it wasn't under Econami or Gaugemaster but was listed under Soundtraxx. It's been some time since I've used DecoderPro but eventually worked out what I had to do.

 

Nonetheless said application couldn't detect the loco on the attached programming track but would happily detect and read my other Terrier that has a Zimo decoder fitted. I swapped back and forth a couple of times and the Zimo decoder was happily read but not the Econami decoder. At least I could rule out anything associated with DecoderPro, the Sprog or the programming track.

 

Just to make sure I put the loco on the layout's programming track and happily read the various CVs, many of them twice to make sure I wasn't getting corrupt results. I even turned the loco round and got the same results.

 

The function key settings have, at some stage, been changed because I deduced from the CV values that F6 had been set up for the brake (rather than the default F11). Several other sounds had also been relocated and a number of the others had had their vales changed to 255 to disable them.

 

I could happily change the various settings* to make my own relocations but none took effect despite me reading them back after my adjustment failed to make any difference. The brake stays on F6 and there are three whistles on F1, F2 & F3 despite the CV values telling me otherwise.

 

* F1's CV is 255 (= disabled)  but happily sounds the whistle.

 

I tried resetting the decoder both the page with the function key mapping and the whole decoder. The latter worked and reset the loco's number to 3 (from its previous value of 33).

 

CVs 31 & 32 were frequently checked and consistently showed 16 & 1 respectively.

 

I must admit that the novelty value of being able to assign various different loco class whistles to your model could be fun. Setting up the active/dynamic brake took a little bit of comprehending - CV values above 127 are taken as a negative value which increases the braking effort. However, I didn't notice anything that indicated whether the low end of the 127 - 255 range translated as the greater or lesser brake force but that's sorted now.

 

The one thing that I dislike is that the sound defaults to On and the Mute function has to be used to turn it Off. I couldn't find anything that indicated that the default could be changed.

 

Has anyone any suggestions with regard to things I could try to sort out the CV mapping?

[Nigelcliffe]

Sorry its a decoder which is outside my direct experience of use.     Try looking on US forums ?     Or ask the supplier if you bought it recently.  

 

 

- Nigel

 

[Ray H]

Thanks Nigel.

 

I did email the Soundtraxx support yesterday about reversing the mute facility. Their reply last evening, which I have yet to try, was that it can't be done. However, they did suggest a way it could be simulated, so I'll give that a try.

 

Having gotten their attention I might mention the further problem that I've had and see if they can shed a light on that.

[Ray H]

Why have one solution opportunity (aka problem) when you can have more?

 

I still can't get my DecoderPro/Sprog combination to even see the Econami fitted Terrier on the track and yet said combination happily sees a Zimo fitted Terrier. I don't believe it is a Sprog issue because I can use the set-up successfully read & write to other decoder type fitted locos.

 

The Soundtraxx suggested method in lieu of using F1 to turn sound on and off, works. There's a brief (1 second) steam sound on power up/placing loco on the track and then all goes quiet until the loco is moved. I can live with that especially as there's the F8 mute function if I don't want sound on. A non-zero value assigned to CV113 does the business - the value is interpreted as the number of seconds after either power on, a movement or other function usage after which sound is turned off. I've set it to 1 and it works.

 

Placing the loco on the track and driving it with sound turned on get a very erratic response. The loco moves a short way, comes to a noticeable but brief stop and then moves off again. This is repeated until the throttle is wound back to zero. Turn the sound off and the loco behaves normally. Likewise, place the loco on the track (or turning power on) and leaving it for a short while sees the loco behaving normally with or without sound on.

 

I've managed to move the brake function to use the F2 key on the PowerCab. I was well pleased until I turned the sound on and discovered that every time I touch the F2 (or Horn/Whistle) key) the loco whistle. It also appears that at least one of the whistle assigned function keys sounds said whistle when the function is turned on and when its turned off. I can live with that by only touching the relevant key when I want the whistle to sound, rather than turning the key off automatically after usage as I do with other decoders.

 

Finally, and despite what Soundtraxx have told me, I've managed to do something that makes the F1 key turn sound on and off. All I thought that I'd done was to set the associated CV to 255 to disable the use of the F1 key - to stop it sounding the whistle and because I hadn't another use for it.

 

I'd like to be able to send the present CV settings to Soundtraxx to see if they can work out why F1 does turn sound on and off and why I can't seem to stop the F2 key blowing the whistle as well as operating the brake.

[Ray H]

Sprog

 

The reason DecoderPro couldn't read the decoder turned out to be the vintage version of the Sprog's firmware I was using. A quick email to Andrew Crosland to get the correct .hex file (at no cost) and away we went. Thanks Andrew.

 

Decoder

 

My comment about F1 function key turned out not to be 100%. F1 did turn the sound on and off but only when the loco was stationary. My guess is that because I'd set the decoder to go quiet after a second of no movement or function key operation, the decoder saw my F1 key operation when the loco was stationary as a trigger to go quiet and because I'd disabled the F1 key's sound it appeared that it was turning sound off. Start the loco moving and F1 had no obvious effect because the loco was moving and F1's sound was disabled. 

 

I'm still trying to find out why I can't disable F2's sound with continuing help from Soundtraxx.

 

Following a suggestion from Soundtraxx to check whether any other mapping CVs were still set to (key) 2, I found CV316 set 2. I've set that CV's value to 255 and there's no whistle sounds when I use the F2 key. Many thanks to Soundtraxx for their ongoing assistance.

 

Neither DecoderPro's data nor the Soundtraxx/Econami guides reference CV316 which is why its value hadn't been found before. Please note: this is not meant to decry the efforts of those who produce the data for DecoderPro, they can only work with the data they have from the decoder manufacturer's literature. I shall be emailing Soundtraxx to tell them what I found.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Ray H
Updated information