n gauge round room.

[shaunster]

Hello, I have a spare room which will be a new N Gauge railway, I will be running around the room with a walk in and some form of helix to the lower level fiddle yards. My interest is in running trains, mainly HSTs, DMUs, steam rail tours etc through scenery. I have no interest in shunting or anything like that really. The layout will be automated using itrain, idea being some trains can go round and round, some can go up to the termini and back down to the fiddle etc. I'm having a bit of a nightmare planning it, cant decide what to do. Cant help feeling I'm not making the best of the space. 

 

Track is Peco code 55.

 

If anyone has any pointers that would be great.

 

 

My first post was in the wrong section, I didn't see this one!

[AndyB]

Couple of questions /:points, if I may?

 

I'm guessing bottom right hand corner is a door. Does that open inwards? Reason to ask is that you may have more options if you could bridge the gap?

 

Second. The baseboard top left snd right hand corners are quite deep and you may have difficulty reaching over to the back. 

[shaunster]

22 minutes ago, AndyB said:

Couple of questions /:points, if I may?

 

I'm guessing bottom right hand corner is a door. Does that open inwards? Reason to ask is that you may have more options if you could bridge the gap?

 

Second. The baseboard top left snd right hand corners are quite deep and you may have difficulty reaching over to the back. 

Hi, the door opens inwards but the original plan was for a duck under but I decided it was too annoying to be honest.

 

Originally I started out with that large back board which is why it is deeper but I now have the whole room. I have already moved the central operating well back 10cm in that area, I can reach over to all parts now but the very far corner is a stretch.

[melmoth]

I'm not altogether sure that you're clear about what you want yet, so any plan you make is probably going to be a bit vague, and therefore unsatisfactory. For instance, if the bottom right corner is going to be a terminus, and you want to run HSTs, how long do the platforms need to be to accommodate one? Is the branch going to have any freight traffic, or is it just an out-and-back DMU shuffle? Assuming you start a train from the terminus, do you want to watch it do a few laps of  the layout and then return to the terminus, or head off to a fiddle yard - or would you like the option to do either, depending on circumstance?

 

If I'm reading the plan correctly, trains originating from the lower FY can only run to the FY - there's no way for them to access the terminus without reversing somewhere. Similarly, trains from the terminus can only run to the FY, not the lower FY, unless they reverse. Even if the two FYs are connected as a through run, this is still the case, I think (obviously I might be wrong).

 

There might be other things that occur to me, but that's probably enough to be going on with.

[AndrueC]

Here's what I've done given the opportunity to run a layout around the walls of a room:

 

Unlike you I've gone with a lift-out (currently duck-under) where the door is. I'm slowly psyching myself up to cut the tracks so that it can lift out but having only been track complete for six months and with most of my stock still in boxes I feel like I want a year's running before I get the razor saw out :)

 

FYI: My HST has two powered units and four coaches. You can fit that on a single 915mm section of Streamline.

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JZxWsFi4cDNZ6nqr9

 

One change I made from that (my first) layout is that the new layout allows for turn-key running. The above layout required me to back trains down that central ramp before they could run and I found that it put me off running. The new layout is specifically designed to let me just turn on the power and run with no faffing around. I can even run trains straight through the yards if I can't be bothered to route them properly onto the main lines.

Edited January 30, 2023 by AndrueC

[shaunster]

Should have been clearer, the fiddle yards will be below layout and joined. There is space under each proposed terminus for a 3/4 radius helix if I go that route. As it stands the two longest platforms could take an HST with 2 power cars and 5 coaches. In my head trains can go round and round tail chasing through the fiddle, or shuffle from terminus to fiddle. They can't go from the terminus and back again without reversing in the fiddle.

 

15 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

Here's what I've done given the opportunity to run a layout around the walls of a room:

 

Unlike you I've gone with a lift-out (currently duck-under) where the door is. I'm slowly psyching myself up to cut the tracks so that it can lift out but having only been track complete for six months and with most of my stock still in boxes I feel like I want a year's running before I get the razor saw out :)

 

FYI: My HST has two powered units and four coaches. You can fit that on a single 915mm section of Streamline.

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JZxWsFi4cDNZ6nqr9

 

One change I made from that (my first) layout is that the new layout allows for turn-key running. The above layout required me to back trains down that central ramp before they could run and I found that it put me off running. The new layout is specifically designed to let me just turn on the power and run with no faffing around. I can even run trains straight through the yards if I can't be bothered to route them properly onto the main lines.

Thanks I will read about your layout. The duck under would certainly open up more opportunities.

[AndrueC]

10 minutes ago, shaunster said:

Should have been clearer, the fiddle yards will be below layout and joined. There is space under each proposed terminus for a 3/4 radius helix if I go that route. As it stands the two longest platforms could take an HST with 2 power cars and 5 coaches. In my head trains can go round and round tail chasing through the fiddle, or shuffle from terminus to fiddle. They can't go from the terminus and back again without reversing in the fiddle.

 

Thanks I will read about your layout. The duck under would certainly open up more opportunities.

At age 56 it's not yet a problem for me but ask me again in a decade :)

 

I've also made mine more complicated than perhaps I ought to have done because it has five sections of track need cutting and the edge is 50mm above the baseboard. I also discovered last week while 'surveying' it that one of the tracks has an existing join about 20mm from the edge. So that's going to be interesting when I have to cut it :)

 

But like you I'm into running trains not shunting them and I have four loops which can be run separately or joined for variety. If you're into just running trains something like tunnels or at least a mountain that can temporarily block view of a train adds interest as do inclines.

[Davexoc]

Depending how high your boards are, a duck under might not be too much hassle. If you are wanting to sit and watch trains go by, do you want a near track level view, or a helicopter view?

Personally I prefer nearer track level, so my boards are nearer chest height. Gas strut bar stools allow myself or the grandchildren a good adjustable vantage point, and a small step is all that is required to reach the far corners if required, although the front can be accessed from both sides anyway...

 

Joining up would also allow for some freight that would be bypassing the station for a little more variety. 

[shaunster]

9 hours ago, Davexoc said:

Depending how high your boards are, a duck under might not be too much hassle. If you are wanting to sit and watch trains go by, do you want a near track level view, or a helicopter view?

Personally I prefer nearer track level, so my boards are nearer chest height. Gas strut bar stools allow myself or the grandchildren a good adjustable vantage point, and a small step is all that is required to reach the far corners if required, although the front can be accessed from both sides anyway...

 

Joining up would also allow for some freight that would be bypassing the station for a little more variety. 

The framework is at chest height, its 120cm high. Definitely don't want to be stooping over the layout. Its not an age thing or anything (i'm 33).

 

[shaunster]

I came up with this using a lift out bridge and removing the branch line and adding an intermediary station on the line down the fiddle yard. The longest platform here is 1000mm, my western Pullman for example is 900mm long and I removed the double slip. But I did have to use some radius 3 curves.

Edited January 31, 2023 by shaunster

[Chimer]

Assuming red and green is a level double-track circuit, that looks to be a very steep incline from where the light blue tracks pass under red (bottom left-ish) up to the green double junction?  Otherwise all the gradients look gradual enough for you not to need to play with helices (unless you really want to!)  We've had some animated discussions about them on other threads in this section recently ......

[AndrueC]

I like it. The lift out section looks like it's raised since it crosses the left curve. In N ideally you need 2.5 metres of track to get high enough to cross another one then another 2.5 metres to come back down. That would be 2% for 50mm. 4% (1.25m up/down) would be in the realm of 'you might get away with it'. Curving inclines are less tolerant.

 

In practice 50mm base board to bottom of rail is more clearance than you need. In UK N 40mm from bottom of rail to 'roof' is all you need in most cases but I rounded up to 50mm to give myself some wiggle room.

 

I love inclines but they do impose restrictions on the design. On my layout the double cross at the top is on a 25mm high mezzanine to give me a half way point so that I've got enough distance to get clearance for the bridge on the right. This necessitated having the bottom sidings at 50mm which is also ultimately why my lift-out section has track at 50mm.

Edited January 31, 2023 by AndrueC

[shaunster]

24 minutes ago, Chimer said:

Assuming red and green is a level double-track circuit, that looks to be a very steep incline from where the light blue tracks pass under red (bottom left-ish) up to the green double junction?  Otherwise all the gradients look gradual enough for you not to need to play with helices (unless you really want to!)  We've had some animated discussions about them on other threads in this section recently ......

The red lines on the right hand side will rise up slightly as drawn the station is 20mm higher than the green junction (its just very hard to see it in scarm), the blue line will also slope down that right side and I will use a retaining wall, I saw Charlie at Chadwick do something similar on YouTube and really liked the idea. I think the bottom left blue lines need to go down about 23mm from the green over about 1000mm length, its about 2.3% and the red line after the bridge needs to go down the same, in theory it gives 30mm clearance but I can work on that once the general plan looks alright. I'm not sure where to put the fiddle yard if I didn't have a helix or similar. I don't intend to do much fiddling though, so hidden storage behind removable scenery could work. 

 

 

[Harlequin]

Hi @shaunster Are you sure this is going to give you the trains running in the landscape feel that you want?

 

In my mind, landscapes are wide open vistas without too much railway infrastructure and no tight curves visible in them. But you have multiple tracks in the same view, double junctions, bridges, tunnels and tight switchbacks.

 

My suggestion would be that now that you've decided to bridge the entrance to the operating well, use it to avoid the tight curves down into the storage yard: Instead circle the whole room to get up and down. And that would also allow you to make the boards much less deep (which I think you really need to do with boards at 1200mm above floor level!).

 

P.S. Tunnel entrances near to backscenes are quite difficult to make look right scenically.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Harlequin

[shaunster]

Thanks @HarlequinMy vision is sort of tracks running through countryside, embankment down the lower level on the scenic section, I do like the look of more complex trackwork but I could make it all one continuous loop and avoid them. I have adjusted the framework now so the depth at the back is 80cm, of course leaning into the corners is still a stretch but I don't intend to have trackwork there just hills.

 

 

[AndrueC]

I'm with you on that, @shaunster. For me 'running through the landscape' really just means 'no stop/start or shunting stuff around'. I do love the sight of a train running through a cutting. I also applaud you for going double track. I wanted to do that on mine but have only managed it in one section - albeit a rather nice looking cutting.

[shaunster]

I think I've decided to keep it a little simpler, do away with the under board fiddle yard idea and keep it on the main boards under a few lightweight hills and such. Add a couple of sidings aka on view storage to the station and keep the rest simple trackwork. 

 

2 hours ago, AndrueC said:

For me 'running through the landscape' really just means 'no stop/start or shunting stuff around'. I do love the sight of a train running through a cutting.

Yes cuttings, embankments, tunnels and bridges. I will have a variety rather than purely rolling fields but its all part of the scenery. I want to have a version of the clayton tunnel near Hassocks on the Brighton mainline.