I will spend £150 - £250 on a loco but nothing on a controller

[AY Mod]

Time and time again we see the odd poster unhappy with the performance of their new loco. Several times we find that they're using any old rubbish as a controller.

 

 

Can anyone who does explain to me why? Just why!

 

Do you still expect a comfy motorway journey in a Series1 Land Rover? Do you still watch TV on a CRT TV? Do you wash your clothes in a tub and dolly?

[Oldddudders]

How right you are. I appreciate that not everyone feels the need for, nor wants the expense or perceived tech complications of DCC, but spending less than the price of a loco on a decent controller seems basic common-sense. That controller will get the best out of every expensive loco you buy - bite the soft bullet!

[spamcan61]

I suspect it's largely "It's worked for 30/40 years, why should I change it now?"

 

I did some virtual eye rolling last week on one of the FB toy train groups where folks are going out buying old Duettes for their TT:120 sets to replace the supplied Hornby controller (which does have a very low pulse frequency, causing noisy motors, but isn't that bad).

 

I suppose I have to admit I've only recently stopped using my 40 year old Duette as I reckon it killed a couple of Hornby DCC chips. Even ignoring the fairly old chestnut of controller compatibility with coreless motors, there's now so much electronics in even DCC ready locos and coaches I daren't let (very) old school resistance mat controllers and suchlike near them.

Edited February 17, 2023 by spamcan61

[AY Mod]

2 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

I suspect it's largely "It's worked for 30/40 years, why should I change it now?"

 

I think you're right; but at the same time they want better performance and functionality from something they're prepared to pay a lot of money for. And for the rest of the world to tell them why they've got a problem.

[franciswilliamwebb]

4 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

I suspect it's largely "It's worked for 30/40 years, why should I change it now?"

 

Indeed, I'm rather attached to my Duette

 

[BMacdermott]

Agreed, Andy

 

I experimented some years ago with controllers and settled on the handheld ones sold by All Components (which are based on what used to be made by Kent Panel Controls). I run DC with Common Return.

 

I have had the feedback switched to minimum by a chap they use for repairs. Probably not much difference on performance of most locos but - as I have noted on another thread recently - my DJM 14xx was 'jumpy' when one came back with feedback inadvertently 'full on'. Changed back to a minimum - problem gone!

 

I recently bought a Trax handheld controller. Good control, but - for me - doesn't 'sit' as nicely in my hand as the All Components.

 

Brian

Edited February 17, 2023 by BMacdermott

[RedgateModels]

I still use a Clipper, but then I do a lot of work with old Triang locos. I have a Gaugemaster jobbie for the more modern stuff.

 

I think one of the reasons that folks cling to their Clipper/Duette is the centre off control. All the more modern controllers I have come across relies on a switch to change direction. It takes a lot to break the habit of just turning the knob one way for forward and the other for reverse. 

[Phil Parker]

I think there was an advert for the H&W walkabout controler that said pretty much the same thing in the 1980s.

 

I still use Clipper - but only as a worst case controller. If a model runs well on this, it will run better on a more modern controller. In my case, modern is a Gaugemaster handheld from the earluy 1990s. It's been repaired by the maker, and is still brilliant.

 

People used to ask me at shows "How do your locos run so well?" I'd talk about track cleaning and also show them the controller. "Oh. I use a Duette myself" was normally the reply. I'd suggest an upgrade, and they would look at me like I'd suggested they set fire to their nose hair.

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, Phil Parker said:

"Oh. I use a Duette myself"

 

"I find using high resistance and half-wave means I don't need to buy sound locos."

[BMacdermott]

Hello RedgateModels

 

I originally used Gaugemaster handhelds but - as I do a lot of shunting - I found the slider switch caused (what I would lightly term) some 'repetitive strain' in my thumb.

 

The All Components have a 'normal' switch but even with that I have had to fit a switch cover which makes it 'softer'. The small degree of extra length also helps in a number of ways.

 

I have tried Morley handhelds, but the 'centre off' didn't feel very positive to me. Whenever I am not running, I switch my controller to the middle off position. This precludes anything moving 'accidentally'.

 

Brian

[sncf231e]

Old controllers for the old trains and new controllers for the new trains:

 

And this one of course:

Regards

Fred

Edited February 17, 2023 by sncf231e

[Wheatley]

But it's just electricity isn't it ? Turn knob this way train goes fast; turn it that way train goes slow. 

 

Seriously, there's so much guff and bull**** around everything else these days ("hyuler-on-ic acid ...") that I wouldn't be surprised if half the people buying a controller had no idea what they were buying and assume that all the physics printed on the box is just a way of dressing it up to justify the price. 

 

I use a Gaugemaster W, but only because my local model shop stocks Gaugemaster and I knew I needed the non-feedback version because I read on here that feedback was probably bad for the coreless motor in my Model Rail Sentinel. The layout currently under construction will also use a W because it uses the same locos and this one seems to work fine. I have no idea why it works fine. (I did check with the shop, who were excellent and confirmed it was the correct choice). 

 

I had an HM 3000 years ago. It looked fabulous, like a small mixing desk, and some bloke in Railway Modeller said it was the best controller he'd ever owned. To this day I have no idea what most of the buttons did. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Wheatley

[jjb1970]

I am in the train set end of the community. My HO and OO models are stored which are mainly DCC but I like to play trains with my N gauge stuff, setting up Kato Unitrack on the wooden floor. I must admit, I just use the DC controllers sold by Kato, they're basic and probably not what serious enthusiasts would recommend but for what I use them for they're perfectly sufficient, the models operate quietly and smoothly across the speed range (that may say more about Kato, Tomix, Microace etc mechanisms and the quality of Unitrack than of the controllers).

[AY Mod]

Just now, jjb1970 said:

Kato, they're basic and probably not what serious enthusiasts would recommend but for what I use them for they're perfectly sufficient, the models operate quietly and smoothly across the speed range

 

Likewise on the test-track here for DC.

[TheQ]

1 hour ago, franciswilliamwebb said:

 

Indeed, I'm rather attached to my Duette

 

Who needs a fake picture when you've worked on the real thing..

That's a mercury arc rectifier as fitted to a Type 80 Radar about three - four foot top to bottom.

[RedgateModels]

Maybe I need to do DC Controllers review for BRM........

[GreenGiraffe22]

This is a subject that's never even occurred to me... I'm using a 30ish year old Gaugemaster controller, which I think is fine but perhaps it's not...? I don't know any different 😅

[Flying Pig]

There must surely be a market for old school H&M units gutted and rebuilt with modern electronics as a simple DC controller.  After all people pay extra for standard Hornby mechanisms in retro metal bodies (and as people have pointed out there is actually something to be said for the ergonomics of the centre-off knob).

 

I'd suggest labelling one of the switches Code 100/Finescale (linked to nothing of course as it would never be changed from the default position). The other could be left as Full Wave/Half Wave and used to change the tone of a comforting artificially generated hum slightly.

[Johann Marsbar]

Until about 10 years ago I was running both my N and OO layouts using a mixture of  fairly elderly (1970's) H&M Duettes and Clippers but then decided to get a Morley one that was aimed for N layouts (Vesta Zero 2) and was sufficiently impressed that I bought another one a year or so later and used them both on the N layout - the old controllers being put to one side, though I still have them "stored serviceable".

A couple of years I upgraded the OO layout to a Morley Vortrak, the hand held controllers being a very useful feature, particularly when I don't ever intend to go down the DCC road.

At the end of the day, I'm glad I upgraded, though the N ones have turned out to be the controllers with a better performance than the old H&M ones, the difference being less defined with the OO one.

 

[TheQ]

I have some controllers based on this.

 

I've also got a set of books which tell you how to build your own DCC controllers.

But I cant find a pretty picture of them...

 

[rogerzilla]

The Gaugemaster controllers would be perfect if they (a) changed the vile colour scheme and (b) used terminals that could take thicker wire.  You'd never get a decent bus wire into one of those.

[AY Mod]

3 minutes ago, rogerzilla said:

(a) changed the vile colour scheme

 

Really? I didn't realise controllers had to be on trend. Still, you could get a vinyl cutter and do some unicorns that go up to 11. 😀

[woodenhead]

Dahhhhhling wired controllers are soooooh passe now, what you want is wifi enabled chips in your models connecting to your computer for control.  Real trendsetters are using rechargeable batteries using WPT, that's Wireless Power Transfer dahhhhhhling, to power their models for a truly wire free experience and no need for those awwwwful frog juicers that went out of fashion in 2020.

[ian@stenochs]

I have scratch or kitbuilt 300+ locos in 4 and 7mm scale and have built them all to run on an H&M Flyer which I bought in the 70s.

 

The output voltage is just about 10v and it can barely gjve 1/2 an amp. 

 

However if I can get a model, mostly 7mm scale now, to run well on my test rack with the Flyer then I know it will perform perfectly with a better controller. 

 

If you build your models to run well on poor fuel just think how good they will be on top quality stuff!!

 

Ian

[unravelled]

I treated my layout to a Morley controller last year, and almost the first thing I did was to make  a stand to put it at the same angle as the old H&M I use for part of the layout.  Some thought went into the old designs.

 

 

Dave