chaplin Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) After trying to create a layout in the loft, dealing with temperature changes, low sloping ceiling, and bad knees, I've finally finished a project in the garage and now have access to that. I'm looking forward to being able to model standing up and having height to play with on the layout. I have decided to start from scratch and will be creating a modern image layout based on Tonbridge West. I've been playing with Anyrail and come up with a layout that I think will work for me but would be grateful for any input as my railway operation knowledge is limited. I need a throughway from the garage door to a door in the back of the garage so it will need to go along one wall rather than around. This means I'd like to have a fiddle yarn underneath and twin helix's to get between the levels. I'll be creating a model of the baseboards in Fusion 360 before cutting any wood. Lower Level Fiddle Yard Upper Level Track Layout Scenic Layout Edited July 31, 2023 by chaplin crop photos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ITG Posted July 31, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2023 Hi, size of board could be a consideration in terms of reach. What scale? How big are the boards? ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplin Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 The helix boards are 1300x1300. The centre board is 1700 wide by 1300 deep. The top centre board will slide forward and legs come down at the front so I can get to it. I will probably also have an opening inside the helix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ITG Posted July 31, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2023 Looking at the radii of the helices, I’m guessing 00? I like complicated track plans, so I get what you’re trying to do here. But I do think the plan is somewhat challenging, in that you have a number of turnouts on the lower and upper levels that are at more than arms length - if a derailment or stall happens, it’s going to be in those areas. And I’m guessing that you won’t want to be popping in and out of those helix centres too often. I considered helices on the layout I’m building currently, but decided against it, not least because of the area they take up, and the access difficulties they can pose. It’s a bit tricky trying to work out where the tracks actually flow to/from on you plan, or at what gradient, so can’t really comment on those two aspects. I’m sure others will add their tuppence worth, both endorsing and disagreeing! good luck Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplin Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 Hi With the space I have the alternative is a small to non-existent fiddle yard or an end-to-end with some sort of traversing system. Neither of which I really want. The other main driver of the helix is that I can run longer through trains on the mainline part while having diesels and RHTT etc in the yard like at Tonbridge. The gradients are 2.5% and 2.2% I have attached the baseboard layout I have done in Fusion360 which isn't finished yet. You are right about reaching in the fiddle yard and I am looking at having the top either slidable or hinged so it can be lifted. This layout is designed to be modular so it can easily be packed away in 3 separate parts if needed to transport. Also if I decide to change in the future then the helix and fiddle yard parts can be easily reused and only the top will need to change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplin Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 The alternative could be something like the below image. This will have a lift-up section at the back door and a swinging section at the garage door end to allow for a full run-around. This would be much easier to construct it also would allow me to reuse some of my loft layout and was my initial plan which I may go back to after looking into the complexities of helix's and the reach issues above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinofLoxley Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 (edited) Based on what you have drawn getting into the helices is a non starter never mind the dodgy knees. What are the garage dimensions? Modern image meaning currently operating stock or slightly older? Edited August 1, 2023 by RobinofLoxley 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplin Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 Currently operating. Although with freight that gives lots of scope with diesels. The garage is 4400 x 2400. I probably can use 4000 to still have the main door opening ok, with a lift-up section for the back door. I did have a large U shape layout I built in the loft but I always end up with a fairly boring track layout. It was also designed as a small steam era branch line. I really need to re-look at that as it's all straights. Onece I get it down from the loft and set it up I will get some photos. Only part has scenery so far so I can change it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinofLoxley Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 It may inspire or not but there's an exhibition layout of tonbridge west https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/tonbridge-west-yard-oo-gauge-model-railway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chimer Posted August 1, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 1, 2023 There's a strange line which doesn't seem to go anywhere running round the left hand end of the layout outside the helix. If you lost that and cut the width of the layout down to exactly the minimum required for the helix, could you fit in narrow passages down both sides? Ever so tight, but would solve the access problems ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplin Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 (edited) Quote It may inspire or not but there's an exhibition layout of tonbridge west Yes I have been looking at that. Its a great layout. The mix of locos in the yard and mainline traffic is what I want to achieve. Quote There's a strange line which doesn't seem to go anywhere running round the left hand end of the layout outside the helix. This is supposed to represent where the real line goes off towards Redhill and I thought I could have a DMU running from there to the hidden siding round the back. Quote narrow passages down both sides? Ever so tight, but would solve the access problems ... Not really, I need a gap at the main garage door end for it to open without hitting the layout which doesn't give much more to play with. Edited August 1, 2023 by chaplin Added more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinofLoxley Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 The original wasnt at all practical in my opinion. The helices take up so much of the upper level space there isnt much operating room left. On the lower level most of the space isnt totally visible to an operator due to the level above it. I think thats a plan that should be buried. Taking the remaining 4 x 2.4 space, you can think about 80cm depth of baseboard in some areas but for operating there must be a decent space left, so in some areas the baseboard width will need to be 60cm to allow 1.2M x 1.4M to sit in. If you want some storage you can go up or down from the main level; how much clearance is required depends on the width of that storage, and how much intrusion into the visual impressions from the main level that you are prepeared to tolerate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplin Posted August 2, 2023 Author Share Posted August 2, 2023 I think you're right. Im going to go with the second option. I just need to find or come up with a layout that works. My old one was very parallel with the boards and felt very boring. I want a mix of mainline and yard like at Tonbridge so with have a look through my track plan books Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted August 2, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2023 21 minutes ago, chaplin said: I think you're right. Im going to go with the second option. I just need to find or come up with a layout that works. My old one was very parallel with the boards and felt very boring. I want a mix of mainline and yard like at Tonbridge so with have a look through my track plan books I've designed a few layouts for garages and similar sized rooms and I always try to get away from the straights and 90° curves trainset style. One of my favourite tricks is to curve around one long side and one short side to make a longer station scene with a more interesting alignment. Some of my designs might give you some ideas: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted August 2, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2023 We all struggle when we want to build a layout in 4mm scale with long trains. A helix (or two helices) is very rarely the right solution. They take up a lot of space and put a lot of strain on the traction, even diesel era models. In the OPs original drawings, there is very little space for the trains to run in the open. The solution is to have the layout split on two separate levels with no connection between them. In the OPs case, this would be a simple double-track main line curving through the space with a set of hidden sidings for train storage. A junction or loop could be added for operational interest. And then an upper level portraying the engineering sidings and a separate set of hidden sidings to run to. Sadly, I recently had my computer stolen and have lost all my stored plans. But I did one some years ago for an N Gauge Society competition for layouts that would fit a standard door as a baseboard. Scaled up to 4mm, that comes neatly to 13' x 5' (4000mm x 1500mm), which would seem to the ideal size for the OP. The upper level was an unusual fiddleyard to fiddleyard tear-shaped line, using 2-car dmus for passenger traffic) which left plenty of space within the rectangle for sidings in one corner. PS: I have just remembered that the plans were on an older computer, not the stolen one. So I may be able to post that one here if I can get that computer from storage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplin Posted August 2, 2023 Author Share Posted August 2, 2023 Quote Some of my designs might give you some ideas: Thanks for that. Some great ideas there. I can see a new plan forming now Quote PS: I have just remembered that the plans were on an older computer, not the stolen one. So I may be able to post that one here if I can get that computer from storage. If you do manage to find it, that sounds like an interesting idea. Thanks 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinofLoxley Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Harlequin said: I've designed a few layouts for garages and similar sized rooms and I always try to get away from the straights and 90° curves trainset style. One of my favourite tricks is to curve around one long side and one short side to make a longer station scene with a more interesting alignment. Some of my designs might give you some ideas: I can see it now 'Tonbridge West Revisited' In this particular case, it might be possible for the door access to double as access to the back of an extensive goods yard, which is what Tonbridge West is.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplin Posted August 2, 2023 Author Share Posted August 2, 2023 (edited) Right, I think I've just about got a layout I'm happy with. The left-hand end will be hinged to fold down so it doesn't interfere with the garage door. The other end will have a lift-up section at the back door. There is no turn-off to Redhill but apart from that it's kind of similar to Tonbridge West. I should be able to just about reach the top right corner. I'll certainly be able to reach the points. Edited August 2, 2023 by chaplin crop photos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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