LSWR Signalling early 1900s

[The Stationmaster]

On 12/10/2023 at 16:10, bécasse said:

I would have included these drawings, which apparently originated from O.S.Nock, earlier but I was having problems with my scanner. Beal's book was published in 1955 and he states that the drawings first appeared in The Model Engineer "long ago", so one can safely assume that they are out of copyright. The vertical lattice displacement on the signal post is (most unusually) precisely correct so one may assume that the other drawings are correct even without stated dimensions. To avoid any confusion I will add that these are specifically drawings of LSWR signals -

"A" is a running signal, either a stop arm (without the Collingly-Welch reflector) or a notched distant arm (with it), both painted red with a white stripe/chevron,

"B" is a siding signal, painted red with a black ring and white dot,

"C" is a calling on signal painted red (including the diamond) with a white stripe,

"D" is a shunt-ahead signal painted red with a black S,

"E" is a wrong road signal painted red,

"F" is a (later pattern, c1900 onwards) ground signal.

 

They were originally published in the 1940s - part of two series which Nock did for 'The Model Engineer'.  One series -  of which these were art, covered signals for the pre-Grouping companies plus some articles about the Grouped companies into the 1930s.  The other series covered lever frames which seems to have covered most types of locking frame manufactured in Britain although i have never seen all of them

 

2 hours ago, Stephen Freeman said:

Unfortunately they would appear to be different to that shown in Pryer, basically looks like the early semaphore arm which pre-dates the Westinghouse disc, but according to Pryer has a red x on white background. However that is just a line illustration, they appear to have escaped the photographers lense. The red x wouldn't have fitted on the Railway Signalling arm and the lens were different.

The one with the whote X on a red ground is clearly described as a 'wrong road signal'  in the drawing in George's book and it is in facta copy of what appeared in the 1934 Southern General/Sectional  Appendices to the Working Timetable.  In other words its is a ground level direct equivalent of the manner in which the LSWR used a 'bow-tie' atm as show a t item E in the lst va ba based on Nock's original article.

 

Bow-tie signals were used in varying ways by different Pre-Group companies although several, like the LSWR; used them as 'wrong road signals'.  after the Grouping ths function was gradually (usually) covered by ground discs on most of the Grouped companies although the LNER, in particular, did use small semaphore arms in some places while the GWR stuck to its Backing Signals which had some similarities to the way in which 'wrong road signals' were used.

[Stephen Freeman]

23 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

They were originally published in the 1940s - part of two series which Nock did for 'The Model Engineer'.  One series -  of which these were art, covered signals for the pre-Grouping companies plus some articles about the Grouped companies into the 1930s.  The other series covered lever frames which seems to have covered most types of locking frame manufactured in Britain although i have never seen all of them

 

The one with the whote X on a red ground is clearly described as a 'wrong road signal'  in the drawing in George's book and it is in facta copy of what appeared in the 1934 Southern General/Sectional  Appendices to the Working Timetable.  In other words its is a ground level direct equivalent of the manner in which the LSWR used a 'bow-tie' atm as show a t item E in the lst va ba based on Nock's original article.

 

Bow-tie signals were used in varying ways by different Pre-Group companies although several, like the LSWR; used them as 'wrong road signals'.  after the Grouping ths function was gradually (usually) covered by ground discs on most of the Grouped companies although the LNER, in particular, did use small semaphore arms in some places while the GWR stuck to its Backing Signals which had some similarities to the way in which 'wrong road signals' were used.

Sorry if it wasn't clear, it was the wrong road ground signal that has evaded the camera. there is a similar drawing in Pryer to that which you describe, which I will use as a basis.

 

Anyway the first of 3 sheets (all different) of etched nickel silver, signal parts arrived yesterday, not all are destined for this project as some are for other LSWR parts. The other two sheets, which I have just emailed to PPD include the rest that are needed that I cannot get elsewhere and for this and other projects. I do feel I will need a couple of repeats, if only to get the number of lattice dolls I will need. As a matter of interest this time, I have offset the lattices by the correct amount but it is very hard to detect in 4mm scale. I think I should have enough Annetts blinds and LSWR weight bars, spectacle plates, and route indicators (fronts and back) for this project. The other parts will come from the second sheet and Wizard.

 

PPD were amazingly quick so hopefully more in a week or so.

 

I will be posting more on the appropriate section of the forum shortly, though there approximately 40 arms of differing types, 4 route indicators and 23 Ground Signals to do - it will take a little time.